Paris Lee talking at MN - thread 2

[shinynewusername]

1st thread here

MN has invited Paris Lee to speak at its Blogging event.

Meanwhile, actual women are being silenced.

the rate of inmate-on-inmate sexual assault is at least three times higher for women

What is nonsense. And if that was the case why Are you campaigning for her to go there?

To add - My feelings are also really hurt by the idea that only men can define what a woman is. Because men are allowed to say they are women and Im not allowed to say that they are not.

Do you know what

Mumsnet can invite who they like

But i am annoyed as are other posters at the insinuation that anyone who is unhappy at PL being invited is only saying it because PL is trans

Fucking rude

And i really wasnt joking...i have no idea what consitutes a personal attack anymore

Justine has posted in Site Stuff about moderation policy.

Yep. Hilarious that half the people condemning the aggression and kissing her bum are people who I see regularly on threads being rude and nasty.

Yeah I just commented now.

Doesnt make sense in context if these threads, noone here has been asking for more moderation, quite the opposite, women on these threads have been asking to be allowed to speak using standard English about a topic with very serious implications to our rights and lives.

Additionally, the criticisms aimed at Justine have been about the decision to invite Paris Lees to speak on 'blogging for good', and her own dismissive comments and insinuations that everyone who is upset by that decision is transphobic. Her comments didnt come across as serious mod comments, they were flippant and rude.

I agree. She's just tried to cobble it all into one post. But that's not the issue here. The disablism issue is about lack of moderation, this is about the reverse.

Why did she bring up that disabilist stuff? Cheap fucking shot

I think tbh they are getting a hard time being told MN is racist/disabilist/sexist/trans phobic and everything else so I can see why she felt the need to post it.
I think an update to talk guidelines might help. There are a lot of goaders about.

Posting to add my support - PL has a misogynist's view of women and women's rights (is that allowed?)

Any success PL has in PL's campaigning comes at the expense of women.

The disablism issue is about lack of moderation, this is about the reverse.

Exactly.

To be honest I felt her pain. It is an immensely emotive issue. One can't help feeling that if anyone just spent 5 minutes googling they'd totally get it. However, I'm willing to accept, that I might be wrong, however much it kills me.

I think there's a generally accepted definition of transphobia, - intense dislike of or prejudice against transsexual or transgender people.

Prejudice is defined as 'a preconceived opinion not based on reason or actual experience'.

After 1000 posts pointing out the reason and personal experience, I have concluded that prejudice played no part in that version of 'transphobia'.

Having said that, I can see that Justine and the team feel beleaguered by the entire issue and given that generally they do a bang up job on this site, out of respect I'm bowing out of the discussion.

Datun I feel similar, I think although am in the middle of a busy home evening so still mulling over things.

I, like others, have had my eyes opened here on MN re trans issues. I had very different views prior to reading threads here on MN and I have pointed others in my personal life to threads here, some of whom have positions of some consequence in public arenas.

In spite of all the negativity that gets through and the circular censoring or whatever it is called, enough positive and constructive narrative gets through so that folks like me can have their opinions completely changed.

I thought Justine's comment re Paris Lees, Joanna Lumley, Donald Trump etc., were either misguided or disingenuous.

Paris Lees is more like Donald Trump in the volume and nature of PL's misogynist remarks, than JL.

And yeah, she's threatening us that if we don't toe the line, she'll ban talk of trans issues from MN.

There's been plenty of opportunities for MNHQ demonstrate that whilst they must make concessions to the trans cause they 'get it'. Inviting Miranda instead of PL would have discharged their apparent need to demonstrate they are not transphobic.
Certain admins have hinted as opaquely as is possible that they are treading a fine line but understand our issues and empathise.
Not Justine though. She's way off with this and has chosen her political position.
She also has form for taking a dodgy anti-woman stance:

"As far as I have seen, then, the gender pay gap has very little to do with discriminatory practices or policies against women."

"The second big problem is that women just do not seem to care as much as men do about salaries and promotion."

What? Where did she say those things?

Financial times caesium.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2502617-To-think-Justine-Roberts-should-not-have-written-this-in-the-FT

I suspect Justine has a personal relationship with Paris Lees. Not making a judgment on that, I have all sorts of friends and family and some of them I have huge differences with. But I feel like thats the missing piece of the jigsaw here, and if it is so then Justine really should have disclosed it.

amalfimamma has just pointed out that all this comes hot on the heels of 'the mermaid invasion' and that these things (mermaids, PLs invite) may be connected, and that is a very plausible alternate theory.

sorry on the site stuff thread

MN is between a rock and a hard place, I see that

This is a position MN made for itself. Lie down with curs, get up with fleas.

I don't think that MN is really caught between the two tbh. I think they have been fire fighting and have had not had time to process the info coming to them.

When they have had pause to look over the past couple of days they will see that the comments relating to the invited individual are based solely on said's misogynistic views and not anything else..

I did wonder if Justine had met Paris at some event and Paris was all reasonable and polite and hence Justine responding to examples of Paris calling women bitches etc with 'I expect she regrets it' or similar, perhaps not appreciating that the attacks and threats are exactly how Paris continues to write.