Why do girls let the boys get away with it?

[Weneedarevolution]

My DS is doing A levels. In geography they have been put in a group of boys and girls - 5 students I think. They have to complete a project. The girls have organised and allocated th work, my DS has minimal work to do. He is GOOD at geography his input would help the girls. He is quite happy to let this happen as he can benefit from their efforts while getting on with other work.

His argument is that if they had asked him he would have gladly helped but they organised it and he just agreed. I really believe if the girls asked he and his friends would do the work to a high standard.

This has happened through out his school career, he and his friends almost expect it now.

So who is to blame the girls for not asking or the boys for letting it happen?

Iamamy I'm doing my best!

Wider society and peer group pressure make it difficult.

Weneedarevolution I hope that's the case and I'm glad. Some of the boys I've encountered, I'm pretty certain their mothers would be shocked at some of the misogyny they come out with, but I'm very pleased to hear your son isn't like that and will hopefully be a good feminist.

It does. I have two brothers so I can see it's difficult, I'm still working on them...

Wait a minute though, it seems the girls are responsible for allocating tasks, and haven't given your son tasks that are appropriate to ability or will. That is the girls failt. not because they are girls but because the task allocators, who are girls, have not allocated much to him, when he is tge team member who could achieve the most.

He obviously feels a bit peeved, partially at exclusion, partially because his skills seem unrecognised amd lartly because the best decision for the team is that he does more than he has been allocated at present.

He has accepted and rationalised the decision of the task allocators partly because he knows tgere is no credit for this module, and if there were credit he might pressure the task allocators to change their decision. in this case he has decided to allow the task allocators freedom to make the wrong decision. (in his eyes) in dping so he wins conformity points, but could lose integrity pounts, and become a scapegoat if the task goes badly.

Curiously a recent work situation i was in had a boss who would insist on people working in an unproductive way because 'she was the boss' but then simultaneously complained about the effects of doing so (department not ready for visits), so its an interesting lesson in integrity v conformity v task focus v team focus.

i dont think 'lazy' and 'freeloading on womens labour' come into it. If he had allocated tasks and given himself nothing..well that would be a different issue.

Speaking as a teacher, even for my most favourite pupil, I would appreciate feedback like this from a parent. No child is perfect! They can all improve, even the child who gets A*s without any apparent effort. Honestly it just needs a quick comment along the lines of next time there's a similar group task could you bear in mind his attitude this time and perhaps intervene if it looks like it's going the same way.

I don't want the girls to feel responsible. I want them to be quiet rightly irritated and for them to feel able enough and confident enough to express this irritation.

Women too often repress anger to appear nice. Wouldn't it be good if they didn't have to repress?

scaryclown what nonsense. The girls are trying to get work done at school. You expect them to be able to expertly allocate tasks perfectly by ability, yet don't expect boys to be able to ask for more work or make suggestions? Of course any way a boy might suffer or not be challenged must be the fault of a girl.

I've done group work at school. I used to be quite shy and had to do group work with others I didn't really know well. They didn't know me that well so I didn't say much at first, then I decided to speak up a bit and things were fine from there. We all benefited.

Scary, you've entirely missed the point.

The girls are not the task allocators. The group were given a task. The boys did nothing, sitting back and letting the girls get on with the work they considered beneath them.

Scary that is more or less exactly my sons argument.

Speak - I'll take that onboard - thanks for the advice.

Weneedarevolution I completely agree girls and women need to feel free to express anger when we feel it, particularly when it's brought about by boys/men, but a large part of that is challenging the misogyny we face when we do or the labels we're often given if we do by many boys and men (bossy, bitch, difficult, whiner etc).

Women too often repress anger to appear nice. Wouldn't it be good if they didn't have to repress?

Wouldn't it be nice if they weren't put in that position in the first place by lazy, entitled men?

Buffy yep that's what's needed. I hate to say it has to come from the school because they get so much crap but really it is about group dynamics so their is only so much you can do at home

Anyway thanks everyone. I'm not sure I'm much further on but I will keep on trying.

Were the girls specifically told by the teacher that they had been designated the 'task allocators' ?

If there was no such direction from the teacher, why is it assumed to be their job to tell the workshy boys what to do?

The whole group is to blame for not dividing the tasks equally. Shouldn't a teacher check, and talk to them about it?

Often, people don't mind doing a bit more, if they get to be in charge. Power in itself can be a reward. The girls may want to do a bit more, because that way they get to control the project. It's a trade-off.

Tardigrade001 or the girls might do more because they value their education and are trying to gain as much as possible from the task. They are certainly not "to blame" for boys not doing theirs, as keeps being said.

I think the danger is here that if the girls 'took' responsibility for allocating tasks, what you are asking OPs DS to do is take control back, or more emotively 'take over from the girls' and I'm not sure where that sits re feminism. If you take or are given responsibility, then you are also responsible for getting thinhs done, or people not getting things done. If you want the girls to have the responsibility. .but simultaneously not be responsible then its not responsibility.

It sounds more like one club is getting together and saying what goes, and sidelining others including your DS, from both organising and doing.

If its not like that, well it could be anything. We only have one source of info.

The girls 'bossily' organised the task and allocated responsibilities. They IMO 'let the boys get away with' doing little by not giving them more work. He was happy to let them do this as it was to his benefit.

I suspect my daughter is one of those "bossy" girls. I can tell you she doesn't think "ah let the boy do a small thing, I'm happy to do the lions share". She is pissed off quite a lot at how many in the group (often the boys but not always) just let it up to everyone else to organise/administer/check up on/submit group work. She often rants about the ones in the group who contribute the small tasks and then late or inadequately. She equally often calls them on it - usually to no avail. She doesn't step up in group projects because she likes being the boss. She does it because she she knows otherwise the group will lose valuable time because no one will organise and she needs to keep her grades up and has pride in her work.

I think these group projects are good because they teach people how to work in groups (in my childrens' middle school the projects ended with each member of the group giving one positive and one negative comment to each other member of the group).

Your son and you should focus on how he is working in the group - what are his strengths and weaknesses. Why the girls "let the boys away with it" is not your problem but he should be asking himself why he is happy to do something small for the project and doesn't want to contribute more. It might be that he is lazy and lets others do the work. Or it might he is someone who works better alone or with just one other person - all good to know for when he is working.

Pallisers I agree with your post but just wanted to say I hope your daughter will find she does enjoy being the boss, is great at it and will make a fantastic and popular boss one day in her career should she wish.

Actually she loves being the boss and is great at it IAMAmy :) her older brother and sister agree.

I have 2 very different older children who behaved differently in group projects which is why I think the OP should focus on what this is telling her about her son rather than the girls.

I completely agree. It's great your daughter loves being the boss, something she'll thrive doing for years to come no doubt!

All I'm getting from this is that boys need bossy girls and men need nagging women.

It's because there are some women themselves that can't let go of the sheer burden of being a woman. I know quite a few woman like this, who apparently like to be in charge but forget to delegate fairly or say, "you do this" but then do it themselves anyway and complain they had to do it. I know a lot of people like this and all of them are women. I have never met a man who has struggled

I think it might be societal.

And again women/girls are blamed. The girls aren't complaining about anything. They're doing their work and learning, trying to get an education and the best grades they can.