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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Glamour Magazine allows transwoman to redefine feminism

491 replies

MrsJamin · 04/11/2016 15:50

Call yourself a feminist? Our transgender columnist Juno Dawson's here to see if you really pass the test

And calls women who don't "TERFs". Thanks, Glamour and Jo Elvin, thanks a lot.

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FlapsTie · 06/11/2016 10:14

That day in the life article is ridiculous, but shows how reductive the whole trans agenda is. Womanhood is simply being petite and wearing makeup and heels. Oh and control pants to hide your cock, obviously.

Cocolepew · 06/11/2016 10:15

Taking your lower face makeup off without taking your eye make up off is now a skill? WTF?
Junos head must be full of pretty, fluffy things, because, obviously, thats what women think about all day. Make up and support underwear.

EmpressOfTheSevenOceans · 06/11/2016 10:16

I haven't worn makeup & heels for over 20 years & I'm the more comfortable for it. Juno is clearly more womanly than I am.

ageingrunner · 06/11/2016 10:17

And we're meant to feel sorry for him because he supposedly has to do all that primping. Just don't do it if you don't like it. Simple. By your logic you'll still be a woman anyway.

shins · 06/11/2016 10:21

Yes it really resembles a day in my life as a woman. Let's see: dh working so need to do grocery shopping, amuse kids, ironing, check on elderly parent, plan working week. But was my breakfast feminine enough? And will I have time for my secret sorority to meet up and discuss our make-up or are they too busy doing all that mundane stuff too?

I just don't see how Glamour can give a platform tosomeone who's clearly quite messed up, and let them loose on "feminism".

ageingrunner · 06/11/2016 10:23

I know we're not meant to think that some transwomen fetishise femininity, but it's pretty hard not to draw that conclusion from the information given

boldlygoingsomewhere · 06/11/2016 10:29

I'm obviously also failing at womanhood - I like a hearty breakfast, hardly ever wear make-up and prefer flat shoes.

It all seems very reductive and reduces men and women to stereotypes. The blog of the gnc man linked above was interesting - good for him to try and widen the bandwidth of what it means to be a man.

MrsJamin · 06/11/2016 10:38

That quote from his book "being a boy" is very interesting, if he perceives womanhood in that way he's basically ramraiding into it saying he deserves to be there too. Just as well seeing womanhood is all about what you have for breakfast, walking in heels, being a glamorous feminist and makeup, not my morning of making a meal for a new family, doing everyone's washing, cleaning the house, getting the children to do their homework and waiting for my period to arrive at an inconvenient time. Obviously. When do we get into this world of womanhood he speaks about?

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ageingrunner · 06/11/2016 10:38

Did anyone notice that he uses the disabled toilet to take of the makeup on his lower face, shave, then reapply? I wonder how long that takes?

Snowshimmer · 06/11/2016 10:43

I just don't see how Glamour can give a platform tosomeone who's clearly quite messed up, and let them loose on "feminism".

It makes sense. If all women got interested in second wave type of feminism (like the excellent Greer quote earlier on the thread) then Glamour would not have many buyers anymore. They sell femininity and beauty stuff to women.
So here is someone who is very trendy - a trans woman - and highly invested in artificial femininity. It makes sense Glamour would want to give space for this type of view. Ugh to unglamorous feminism, that won't sell so much beauty products.

His article reads like a joke though. Other than the fact that someone male who has only been trans for a year is telling women how to do feminism, and his complete denial of the fact that 99% of all women will see him as male, one wording that really irritated me was calling issues like FGM "biggies".

Snowshimmer · 06/11/2016 10:46

I don't understand men who see "woman" as just looks and makeup. I guess women's work is invisible to them.

Fairyflaps · 06/11/2016 10:46

Not only being petite and eating little breakfasts, but doing little wees and poos.
Yes, my right to do a little wee or poo is, apparently, major political battleground.
Presumably does teeny weeny fragrant unicorn farts too.

HermioneWeasley · 06/11/2016 10:49

"All the use al issues "

WTAF. He has no idea what women are. He thinks we're like Barbie dolls.

It's deeply offensive but shows why he thinks he's a woman because in his mind "woman " = performing femininity. Women aren't fully human, just exist for the male gaze

It makes me feel sick

YonicProbe · 06/11/2016 10:50

I wonder what Adam Lambert has for breakfast, as he has a penis and a make up brand:

www.celebuzz.com/2010-03-12/adam-lambert-is-launching-a-makeup-line-for-men-so-we-can-all-be-as-fabulous-as-he-is/

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace · 06/11/2016 10:50

So here is someone who is very trendy - a trans woman - and highly invested in artificial femininity. It makes sense Glamour would want to give space for this type of view. Ugh to unglamorous feminism, that won't sell so much beauty products.

Exactly - very well put! Feminism was untouchable when it was about actual women, and not makeup.

StatisticallyChallenged · 06/11/2016 11:04

I love that Juno's "day in the life" starts with "getting my Chihuahua out of his house for a morning cuddle." There's nothing inherently wrong with chis, but talk about going full on Paris Hilton stereotype.

8am "It's very hard to feel like a woman when you wake up with stubble." - but perfectly possible to feel like a woman when you wake up with a cock (and presumably, on occasion, morning glory?)

8.10am "If I don't want to look like Jesus, I need a LOT of makeup. How I envy any woman who can get away with a bit of lip Vaseline and a dab of mascara" - we can all "get away with" this, if getting away with is defined as looking like we look naturally.

9am "I'm at the stage in my transition whereby if you don't look too closely you'd probably think I was a 'regular' woman.But who are we kidding, I'm tall and leggy and wearing a ton of makeup so OF COURSE people are going to stare at me. Women get stared at, why would I be any different?" - I really beg to differ going by your photos, sorry. You're not being stared at like an attractive woman gets stared at (filled with sexual intent), but because you look different. Should we (as a population) be more accepting of different? Hell yes. But it gives you no insight in to what it is like to be stared at as a woman. It's more akin to the way you get stared at wearing a fancy dress costume. And as for "who is she trying to kid, answer "no one"" then why are you spending hours trying to hide your beard?

2pm "Cisgender people are not responsible for educating anyone about gender, transgender people, apparently, are." Right, just no you egotistical eejit. Firstly, there's not just "cisgender and transgender" there's also "don't believe in gender", and those people have been educating people about gender for decades. See, for example, Germaine Greer who you were so quick to ridicule. But non trans people aren't going to be able to educate on what it feels like to be trans since we're, you know, not. Just like a trans woman shouldn't try to educate on what it feels like to be a woman since you're, you know, not.

5pm - "Yep, it's time to shave again because my face is getting stubbly" - if you're not trying to kid anyone why are you shaving again, and taking up the bottom half of your make up isn't a skill, it's a makeup wipe. If you can't remove makeup from your chin without removing it from your eyes you're doing something wrong.

10.30pm. Where the hell do I start with this one, really?
"Take the mask off, peel off three layers of control underwear" - if your makeup feels like a mask, there's something wrong. And no woman wears 3 layers of control underwear - the most I've ever worn is two (spanx and an underbust corset) under a wedding dress. Most days I wear none, and that's normal IME.

"It's exhausting, because being a woman is exhausting. I have all the regular issues - stupid shoes, retouching makeup, white van men trying to lure me into sex." Those are not the regular issues of being a woman. Those are issues associated with performing femininity (excluding the white van man thing which is an issue of male entitlement.) They are not the same thing. You don't have to wear stupid shoes to be a woman - I wear heels at work, but walk in flats. Retouching makeup? Don't like it don't wear it, fixed that issue for you.
The regular issues women face (not all woman face all of them): periods (unpredictable bleeding, awesome), discrimination, fear of assault from the physically stronger and larger male sex, sexism in the workplace, the lions share of caring responsibilities - or the expectation that we'll have them resulting in discrimination anyway, pregnancy, childbirth...not shoes and retouching make up.

FlapsTie · 06/11/2016 11:24

Ooh I have a chihuahua! I must be very womanly indeed. Do you think it counteracts my lack of makeup, sturdy boots and jeans? Or my full English breakfast this morning?

It's such a minefield.

MrsJamin · 06/11/2016 11:26

Exactly, it's Glamour's version of feminism, where you are glamorous, call people sisters whoever they are and don't talk about messy unglamorous aspects of life. They've defined who they are and who they want to speak to with this piece. I pity the young women who read this and think Glamour = womanhood as they will be sorely disappointed.

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Datun · 06/11/2016 11:30

If he wears 3 pairs of pants to disguise his penis and doesn't have gender dysphoria, then how is he trans anyway?

All this ritual 'feminity' and thinly disguised delight at white van man's sexual luring sounds far more like a cross-dressing fetish.

And Glamour mag are promoting him as an expert on feminism.

It would be hilarious if it wasn't so frightening.

BenLinusatemyhomework · 06/11/2016 11:43

Exactly StatisticallyChallenged.

I find the glaring cognitive dissonance staggering; to state in one sentence that people are staring "of course" because you are a leggy attractive women and then IN THE VERY NEXT SENTANCE talk about people staring because you don't pass as a women. I find it frankly, bizarre.

It's like there is the delusional aspect of the personality (I am a women the same as born women) and the victim aspect of the personality (I am trans and different from born women) which are inherently incompatable beliefs, but instead of confronting them internally and coming to some place of deeper understanding of his psyche, Juno is vacillating between the two.

I don't think that all gender dysphoria is inherently a mental health problem (although I think for some, that may be true) but I do think the current ideology surrounding trans is not conducive to sound mental health.

ageingrunner · 06/11/2016 11:48

If the people who are close to tw were a bit more honest about "passing" maybe that would be helpful? There must be people telling them that they do pass when they don't, which I imagine isn't very helpful for their mental health. Not passing shouldn't be a problem if everyone was just allowed to dress as they please, but it's being held up as so important that it's worth stopping puberty to help kids pass better as adults.
Disclaimer: Obviously not all tw don't pass but a lot seem not to

GardenGeek · 06/11/2016 11:54

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrsJamin · 06/11/2016 11:59

As if he's ever been leered at by a white van man for sex... In his dreams!

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Stuffofawesome · 06/11/2016 12:13

Wonder how Juno would respond to the body confidence of Haarnam Kaur, woman with world record for a beard and body confidence to match. www.facebook.com/Channel4News/videos/10154185791261939/

GardenGeek · 06/11/2016 12:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.