woman loses residency of son she was raising as daughter

[BombadierFritz]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3859618/You-caused-son-great-harm-insisting-raising-girl-Boy-seven-sent-live-father-mother-raised-daughter.html

hmmm. ok so its daily mail reporting but I am conflicted
perhaps good if child was being pushed into something he wasnt
but wtf with the boringly stereotypical insistance on the type of toys played with

Its really hard for mums raising children with gender dysphoria. Please try to keep open minded and support them. Thank you xxxx

I'm sure it is, I'm sure a lot of people on this thread understand how hard it must be from their own experiences of parenting.

What I am concerned about is that in this particular case there is plenty of evidence to suggest this was not the case with this child, yet still Mermaids is opposing the decision of the court and encouraging people to think the judgement is wrong, simply on the grounds that they disagree with it. I haven't seen any coherent arguments with the evidence presented in the court judgement, but quite a lot of misleading statements and incorrect summaries.

I'd like to hear from presumably the large number of parents who had possibly trans children and were advised by Mermaids that they didn't think they were trans and Mermaids wasn't the right path.

buffy why are you asking for support for you as a parent of a trans child on a thread about a child who isn't trans?

Very sad case all round

fela

buffy76 has also posted on the feminist board

Sorry fela

Meant started a thread

Thanks rufus I was too busy with baby animals to notice

All evidence shows that the more children are told about "transition" as a solution to their problems, the more they want to do it. All these pro-Mermaids parents act like if they'd never taken their kid to Mermaids, their kids would be just as invested in gender transition. In reality, Mermaids is leading your children down a primrose path that ends with sterilization -- predominantly for children who are gay, or sexual abuse victims, or autistic.

What a "nice" organization. How "helpful" it must be to have other parents on "your side" when you're trying to justify in your head why this one particular transformation obsession a child can develop is REAL AND TRUE while others are just fantasies. How "lifesaving" it must be to be able to say "look, there are others doing it, and our lives are quite hard, so you shouldn't judge us."

A club of parents, half hoodwinked into pseudoscience, half jumping in with both feet so they can get attention as a Brave Parent of a Trans Child. What a stellar charity.

To all the new posters that have clearly been asked to post by a Mermaids committee member - PLEASE if you're going to put your name to something you post, read the judge's summary in full first.

And ask yourselves why this charity has asked you to add their voice, in your name, to this debate.

The mother in the case was NOT prevented from defending herself. If Mermaids are telling you that they are lying. The mother has simply been prevented from going to the press in order to preserve the privacy of her child.

Did any of you Mermaids cheerleaders bother to read Elsa and Tubas' posts? Or have you just dismissed them in the same way as you dismissed the (very thoughtful and considered) judgement from the judge in J's case?

Really, you're not doing Mermaids any favours. You're coming across as shambolic and massively unprofessional. Which is fine in some ways because, as you say, you're just a group of parents supporting one another. It's a bit less fine when you're purporting to advise schools, the government and the NHS. Then the lack of governance and responsibility for safeguarding become a real concern.

Just wanted to reiterate that it's still not totally clear whether the child at the centre of this case is trans or not. Please don't put them in either category, let them figure it out themselves in time.

However the trans status of the child is actually irrelevant to the case.

The case is about whether the child is better off being taken out of the care of the mother. Which whilst unusual is sometimes the right thing to do.

"Let them figure it out themselves in time" ... why is this the line? This is the same as when American creationists say "Well, you can't PROVE anything, so you should teach creationism and evolutionary theory alongside one another."

All opinions aren't equally valid. The notion that a child's brain could have been born into the wrong body is not a valid opinion. End of story.

It's not just Mermaids that acts this way. This is the way gender non-conforming teens are treated all over the internet, as well.

transgenderreality.com/2016/08/17/the-words-asktransgender-commenters-dont-want-teens-to-see/

Look at the kinds of comments that get deleted. Are they comments full of hate and vitriol? Watch how kids spiral into obsession after a few weeks of internet adults telling them that transition is the only option:

transgenderreality.com/2015/05/15/omfg-i-have-waited-so-long-teen-goes-from-questioning-to-taking-hormones-in-three-months/

What's more, kids online are being groomed by adults in how to threaten suicide and tell their parents the right lies to get hormones and surgeries, and told that if their parents don't agree, they should self-medicate:

transgenderreality.com/2016/03/15/lie-to-them-to-get-hrt-give-them-the-good-old-narrative/
transgenderreality.com/2016/05/13/i-hide-my-meds-in-my-saxophone-case-self-medding-advice-to-minors/

Children are being actively groomed by trans adults who tell them that any discomfort with social roles or clothing is a sign of being trans, and that "cis" children do not think that way: transgenderreality.com/2016/07/30/do-you-feel-uncomfortable-with-yourself-in-some-way/
transgenderreality.com/2015/12/02/a-magical-pill-to-bypass-suffering-how-teens-are-persuaded-to-start-transition/

More:

transgenderreality.com/2015/04/21/youre-in-the-last-stages-of-denial/
transgenderreality.com/2015/04/20/at-least-get-on-blockers-at-the-very-least-youll-regret-waiting-further/
transgenderreality.com/2016/08/04/questioning-teens-and-social-contagion/
transgenderreality.com/2015/09/11/youll-be-miserable-and-unhappy-with-your-body-for-the-rest-of-your-life/
transgenderreality.com/2015/12/14/i-didnt-like-doing-all-the-stereotypical-girl-things/

When parents with significant signs of mental issues around their child and gender show up to talk about these issues, they're encouraged and told they're great parents:

transgenderreality.com/2015/07/17/i-would-not-be-sad-to-see-his-male-body-go-away/
If your child says they're trans, be AWARE of what they're doing on the internet, who they're talking to, and what they're talking about. Many adults online love to groom children into these behaviors, possibly to justify their own adult transitions to themselves.

WombOfOnesOwn I love you.

For:

This is the way gender non-conforming teens are treated all over the internet

read:

on this one specific site where I found lots of stuffs so like the whole internet must be like that because reasons

How many sites would you like me to link articles from where this isn't the case, where children who might be trans are given helpful and supportive advice?

Huffpost, pinknews, everydayfeminism and plenty of other LGBT safe space sites do not have anything like this on them. They have informative articles which echo the right course of action (mostly, go explore, get counselling, wait and see).

Some of what these new posters from Mumsnet are saying is correct. The support from other parents who are in the same situation as you is invaluable. Yes there is no other organisation offering this support so it is a lifeline for many families. The opportunity for children and teens to meet other young people who are gender variant is really helpful in helping them feel less alone.So yes Mermaids does some good work which is not replicated anywhere.

However there is a downside to parents meeting others who have gone through this already. New parents may hear horror stories about how long their child will have to wait for a diagnosis then will have a long wait for blockers and hormones. They may meet parents who are disenfranchised with how their child was treated and may offer ideas on how to short cut the system; what to say to the clinics to move forward more quickly. They might advise you or even assist you in obtaining hormones from the internet.

Before anyone from Mermaids accuses me again of hypocrisy I will admit that I was influenced by this sort of advice from existing members myself. I was distraught and was so happy to find people who understood that I didn't realise that these were parents just like me, just further along the journey. After listening to them I did try to accelerate treatment for my child although never by hoodwinking the clinics or obtaining drugs illegally.

Having said this I stress that this was the situation during the time I was with Mermaids up to February 2014. The situation may have changed since. I really hope it has. Only Mermaids can say if it has. It would be a crying shame if the only support group of this kind was lost due to bad practice.

Susie Green was just on Newsnight - along with (I think) Stephanie Davis-Arai. The thing that really stood out for me was that SG made her arguments via anecdotes, where SDA used facts and data whilst being constantly interrupted. The piece was much too short though - the topic deserves and needs much more time.

Transmum, are you really saying other trans forums online don't say the same thing? Please, parents, do your own research. The other sites transmum mentions are news sites, not forums where kids are asking questions. The reddit community I mentioned is the largest trans community on reddit and one of the largest ones online. Susans.org and other prominent transfer forums have the same type of grooming. If you bothered to read the links I left, you would see that some of the people brought up aren't even on reddit, but are hugely influential YouTube video bloggers and so on. This happens everywhere kids go to look for information on trans issues.

Atransmum, could you link to some of the online examples that explain to kids that think they might be trans that they might not be, and why that might be the case.

Also, the kind of language you're using where you straw man someone else's argument and then add because reasons is exactly that kind of sociolect that strongly suggests you're part of that online social justice community that is causing concerns and is certainly not what the rest of the Internet is like.

But what I know is no matter how much boys clothes, lego, star wars toys etc you throw at a child, you can not MAKE them feel like a boy

FFS this is the OPPOSITE of what people here are saying. Maybe if you were not so invested in things being boys things or girls things, you wouldn't be enthralles with an organisation that sterilises and castrates their lesbian and gay children.

•enthralled

Tubas
Hugh fottosofatfosm

Mermaids. Was it a committee decision to invade MN? I think Mermaids should change its name. Trolls might fit it better.

Bookmarking..haven't read yet but not sure how to bookmark for later without posting.

WankingMonkey

There are 3 little dots in the right hand corner under each post. Of you click you can bookmark ❤

I'd love to see if Atransmum can come up with ANY desistance literature or pamphlets or articles about what to do if you're not sure you're trans any more. Please, transmum, do tell us what you find. I'll be waiting.