Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Things you are not supposed to do as a woman ...

149 replies

YetAnotherSpartacus · 21/10/2016 07:42

... but (still) do anyway (?)

A few random thoughts inspired this thread. Elsewhere on MN there is a thread about going into a pub / bar alone (as a woman) and I was surprised at the number of women who said that they didn't do this, either because of fear of harassment or because it's just not done for women to do this.

Nearly two decades ago I was meeting colleagues before a work dinner at Pub X. I assumed that meant IN Pub X. The first to turn up waited outside for the second to turn up and when both came in they were surprised to see me sitting there with a beer. Conversation ensued about;

  1. Women going into pubs alone
  2. Drinking alone (anywhere)

I learned that these were not acceptable for a woman. Oddly, these women were both academic feminists. They were my superiors, so I didn't say anything other than 'it was cold out and I wanted a seat'.

For a while, I felt a bit odd about going into pubs alone (and ordering a pint or two). But I gradually started doing it again and didn't think oddly of it again until I read that post.

Then I read the Grayson Perry post and the article in the Telegraph. I thought it good, but was also intrigued about how he monitored other men so that he knew what masculinity was. It struck me that I have simply never done this with women / femininity.

Thus, I've been told from time-to-time that I do things that are not expected of women, such as liking whisky, travelling alone, etc.

I was wondering what other women here have always done, but have been told that they should not, as a woman? Are there any interesting stories about how women found out they were breaking gender rules? Did anyone stop doing things because they were told it was unacceptable? Is there anything women want to do but are too inhibited to do for fear of breaking gender rules?

OP posts:
garlicandsapphire · 21/10/2016 10:20

Happy to go and drink alone in a pub - a pint or wine. I never wait outside. Happy also to go for a meal and the cinema on my own and to travel alone, including road trips in foreign countries.

I get looks sometimes eating or drinking alone and travelling independently - just sad more women don't have the courage to do what they want. I don't need permission. But then I am also a chief executive and a director which maybe women aren't supposed to be!

ageingrunner · 21/10/2016 10:21

I've had wheel balancing and rawl plugs mansplained to me recently by 2 different men, both of whom have known me for years and years Confused
So having any knowledge of those 2 subjects can be added to the list

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 21/10/2016 10:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 21/10/2016 10:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KnottyPineHell · 21/10/2016 10:25

As already mentioned....
The pub thing, I had a friend who was always late, no way I'm standing outside for half an hour. Drinking pints esp. Guiness, cider and ales.
Yes to sci-fi, Marvel, comics and graphic novels, swearing, power tools and free weights.
And I can't be arsed with fiction either.

Lorelei76 · 21/10/2016 10:27

I think burping loudly is grim whoever does it
I'm surprised by the things on here, never been told off for offering to help carry bags etc, but I do remember a man being amazed that I knew something about spread betting, he shut up quickly though.

ShaunPaul · 21/10/2016 10:28

I don't like children. I have no maternal feelings whatsoever. Once SIL brought her new baby round when we were at PILs (lots of people) and the baby was passed around. I was the only person not to hold her or coo over her. MIL was very perturbed by that.

At my cousins wedding I was drinking pints of ale. My mother had a word with me that it wasn't ladylike and, apparently, I looked awful.

I don't run any decisions about spending past DH. My mother is very concerned about this.

MrsJayy · 21/10/2016 10:28

And you were a girl Buffy the horror Grin

KnottyPineHell · 21/10/2016 10:28

I know a lot about bikes (the pedal variety) as well, this really confuses blokes in bike shops who talk slowly when I ask about stuff.

Lorelei76 · 21/10/2016 10:30

Never heard of ordering two halves eithet
Is this age related? I'm 40 and I do think we are going backwards on stuff like this. The fact that anyone is even watching for manly behaviour, then again, I guess Perry is being paid to write about it?

MrsJayy · 21/10/2016 10:31

I dont burp on cue or loud on purpose but i do burp like a normal person does and excuse myself i dont go to another room to burp cos i am a lady

Fantome · 21/10/2016 10:35

Errol - I hope it is something which is changing, even if slowly. It seems it's still so common (Laura Trott recently a reasonably high profile example of changing her name) and it's it being so unquestioned that gets me. My mum is a similar-ish generation, mid 40s, when I ask her why she changed I get tradition/I just did. She still seems to assume any woman who gets married will change her name. To me it's such clear sexism and really winds me up, even when I was in Year 8 I remember my form teacher when I said "good morning Miss X" to her one Friday morning her saying "it'll be Mrs Y on Monday!" and even being irked then. Also I did used to hear girls saying things like "just think if you married him you'll be Amy (his surname)" although thankfully that seems to have largely vanished now! I've heard of the professional keeping of a surname but taking the man's name for social purposes before - that's almost as sexist to me as it's saying when in any company non work related you must show you've taken his name (sort of a name tag). Absolutely no way I'll ever change my surname and if I have children they will DEFINITELY have my surname, I have no doubt your daughter would never accept the idea of changing her name!

BlessThisMess · 21/10/2016 10:37

Sitting with ankle on opposite knee. I'm the only woman I've ever seen doing this, but I find it comfortable! Admittedly nobody's ever commented or looked askance at me afaik, but I sometimes feel slightly self-conscious about it.

ageingrunner · 21/10/2016 10:40

I sit with my ankle of the opposite knee too Bless. It's unusual for women to do. I do if for health reasons really as apparently it's not good for your circulation to cross them in the usual "womanly" way

ClaraLane · 21/10/2016 10:42

My husband's parents often look at me disapprovingly if I ever order a pint, I'm not surprised ordering two half pints to make them happy because it costs more!

user1475253854 · 21/10/2016 10:42

I was reading by myself on a grassy area in a naice university town and a group of male students couldn't get over it. I heard them talking about me, they approached me (nothing hostile) and were still discussing me and what I was reading nearly an hour later when I left. It was bizarre.

Lorelei76 · 21/10/2016 10:44

Fantome, yes. I'm also thrown by Theresa May being Mrs May. A friend said to me "but Mrs Thatcher" and I said, hang on, that's effing 30 years ago!

Lorelei76 · 21/10/2016 10:45

User, cross post
How can a woman reading alone anywhere be weird? I'm so confused. Are you sure they weren't loud PUAs trying to get attention?

Fantome · 21/10/2016 10:47

The holding children thing is one I'd forgotten about, but about 3 years ago a family friend brought round their newborn son. I have two brothers, but I was offered/ordered to hold him, told I was a "natural" and that I apparently had the maternal instinct. I don't. Unless the instinct is praying the nappy doesn't need changing. I suppose I wasn't supposed to not immediately crave the day I had a baby.

Loulou0 · 21/10/2016 10:48

Rolling over and falling asleep immediately after sex. My husband likes to cuddle but I need to go straight to sleep. I tell him it's because it's so good but really I just can't help it.

Fantome · 21/10/2016 10:48

Lorelei76 - me too. It's possibly silly but I still feel a bit frustrated every time I hear her referred to as "Mrs May" (or rather, that she is "Mrs May", as it is her title after all) - the most notable politician in the country is serving as a constant reminder to girls that changing our name when we get married is what's "done".

Fantome · 21/10/2016 10:52

Another one - wear flat shoes when "dressing up". Went to a party not long ago at a really nice restaurant, the general consensus in the chat about it beforehand was "well you have to wear heels".

MrsJayy · 21/10/2016 10:53

Really i had regular run ins with myDds physics teacher and this was just 5/6 years ago the man was a complete mysogonistic prick my Dh took him to task about ignoring our Dd in class she failed her Higher (scottish exam) because of this teacher. Oh and when Dd2 took physics a few years later he was just as bad

Lorelei76 · 21/10/2016 10:57

Fan tome - " the most notable politician in the country is serving as a constant reminder to girls that changing our name when we get married is what's "done".

This!! So annoying.

Actually I can see now that some things are going over my head now, I never wear heels or skirts and had forgotten that anywhere wouldn't be okay with that. That said, I do think a lot of places advertise that but won't turn you away.

There's definitely a regression in the way that women seem to be expected to maintain an insane level of grooming. Yes, club bouncers have always decided what the right look is but I was never turned away for not wearing heels or skirts.

Fantome · 21/10/2016 11:04

Lorelei76 - I'm glad it's not just me! Likewise on a personal level the Headmistress of my school being a "Mrs". I mean it's her choice, but it's not really a choice when it's so unquestioned, and in a girls' school it's a regular reminder too, as I suppose is most of our mums being "Mrs" (though thankfully not all).

In terms of heels I think it's appalling if anywhere would turn women away for not wearing them (just as it is it's still legal for workplaces to insist on them, I think). I was advised to wear heels for work experience which really annoyed me. With going out it was friends in a group chat basically saying "it has to be heels" and it really annoyed me as I find them very uncomfortable...as most do.