Page 4 | DH is 'glad' of verdict

HillaryFTW · 15/10/2016 23:35

Look after yourself Hex. [flowers ]

RJnomore1 · 15/10/2016 23:35

Relieved to hear that hex

rememberthetime · 15/10/2016 23:43

Part of the reason I am now living apart from my husband is because he refused to talk with me about these issues. He believed I hated men and that included him. I got the impression that he didn't agree with me on basics like consent and that alongside other abuse was enough for me to leave. Avoiding the subject is as bad as agreeing with the verdict as it makes it clear they don't want to disagree with you. It gives their hand away. At least you have a clear understanding.

StrictlyPan · 16/10/2016 08:20

Sounds incredibly awful OP. Whenever it's talked about with me and my buddies/family/colleagues it doesn't often get beyond "twat" and other short words. If any man offered themselves as a CE cheerleader I wouldn't want to know him.

Even IF he is just being 'controversial' it's the wrong item to do that over.

StrictlyPan · 16/10/2016 08:29

Reading back it does sound like "war on women" that your dh's camp has a war prisoner and by chanting her name it's akin to torturing her. In public. And he thinks this is a good thing.

SomeonesRealName · 16/10/2016 08:42

Hmm my XH would have deliberately taken the same position for the express purpose of bullying me.

VestalVirgin · 16/10/2016 11:46

He announced this morning that he is happy and glad that justice has been served and will not listen to reason.We have 3 daughters.'

On the other hand, if you don't have any sons, at least there's a good chance he won't be able to push his disgusting opinions on the next generations.

Though it is sad that he doesn't love your DDs.

I'm an adult and it still makes me sad when my father takes a rapist's side in cases where it is blatantly obvious that the rapist is guilty.

SomeonesRealName: If someone says disgusting things to bully me, I treat it as if he really means those things. In the end, it makes no difference as he's a disgusting person for bullying in the first place.

albertatrilogy · 16/10/2016 12:12

"She woke up alone, having pissed the bed, her handbag missing and no memory of what had happened. She contacted the police about her handbag and mentioned a concern that she might have been spiked. She remembered everything up until being in the kebab shop and knew she had not had that much to drink compared to her typical drinking on a night out (she had only been out for a fairly short time after finishing work)."......

AnyFucker · 16/10/2016 12:20

Hex I am sorry that your H has shown you what he is in such a cruel way

I get the feeling this isn't the first time, but this time you are struggling harder to square away the fact you are married to a man like this

I would feel a sense of crashing doom for my marriage in this situation.

LumpySpacedPrincess · 16/10/2016 12:56

This would be a deal breaker for me, I could not share my life with someone who has so little respect for half the population. To be honest I would kick him to the kerb for smirking.

Original poster

HexBramble · 16/10/2016 13:56

AnyFucker that's exactly how I'm feeling.

Thanks to everyone of you who haven't belittled my feelings.

OP posts:

Elendon · 16/10/2016 14:39

Yes, it's a crashing doom, as AF says. So sorry. You cannot fix this and he probably is speaking to someone who is agreeing with him and is willing.

Sorry. But my ex, whilst in the last months of our marriage, told me a rape joke he thought was very funny as did someone else who was just as intelligent as him, despite me asking him not to and him blocking my exit. I was appalled at the joke, but some months later he left me for her as she was my intellectual superior. I have decided that you really can't argue with stupid, and good luck to them!

Cocoabutton · 16/10/2016 14:46

For me, and it was a number of years ago, when I had a different nn on here - I recognised my xH was using the kind of coercion to have sex which implies that he was entitled to it. He had the whole repertoire. Then it got to well, I will just have sex with you when you are asleep.

He said later it had been a joke, but there was no way back, really.

I am really sorry, hex, I think the way you feel is correct

PinkissimoAndPearls · 16/10/2016 15:44

Hex I'm sorry, I can imagine that this must be making you feel a bit beaten down and possibly a bit fearful for the future.

DH and I were discussing this yesterday as he was saying he was shocked by the amount of men in his workplace who share the views of your DH. DH was saying men like this probably aren't going to have their minds changed by women (as they clearly think so little of them), so there is a real duty on men who disagree with this verdict to speak out in an attempt to make these "hurrah justice has been served" men realise how wrong they are.

(By the way, as a feminist it pisses me off that DH is basically saying male opinions carry more weight than women, but with men like your DH they probably do unfortunately)

DH has just started a new job so the very last thing he wants to do is get into arguments with colleagues but being married to a rape survivor he can't listen to men basically condoning rape and not speak up. We were discussing how best to make these men realise. The fact that 1 in 4 women have been raped and the fact that these men like your DH presumably have female friends and relatives numbering more than 4, therefore the chances are they know rape survivors in their immediate circle (which fact alone seems to surprise them ) so they should be listening to what women are saying and take it on board. But even if they don't listen to women, men also think this was rape and DH was saying he would ask directly if these men would act exactly the same i.e. Enter a hotel room in the dark and put their dick inside a woman (that they have never met but know to be drunk) without speaking one word to her, rape have sex with her and then just leave without speaking another word to her. When asked this question bluntly and crudely they do seem to realise this isn't acceptable behaviour. Perhaps it's a question you could ask your DH, if you can bring yourself to discuss it with him again. Would he actually do the very same? If not, why not? If he would, well there you go. You know where you stand.

Depending on how you feel, you may well not even want to spend time and effort "educating" him, as the fact that he requires educating is a problem in itself. I can imagine if there are issues already in your relationship this may well feel like the final nail in the coffin.

PinkissimoAndPearls · 16/10/2016 15:50

PS I do realise there is more to this case than just entering the hotel room in the dark and having sex with a stranger etc (personally I feel this case is actually more about power and control than actual sex) and there are lots of other issues - like attempting to bribe witnesses for one! - but the direct question of whether they could act like this themselves, focuses the male mind. Or if someone did exactly this (god forbid) to you, or his daughter, would your DH think it was acceptable?

AnyFucker · 16/10/2016 16:32

The thing is, to some men the question "what it were your female relative" does not work

They see some women as fair game. As somehow other and not deserving of the same reset they give to their own women. An angel/whore division if you like.

There is something fundamentally wrong with men (and women) who classify other human beings like this and no amount of trying to appeal to their emotional intelligence is going to get the result you hope for because there is something missing there

AnyFucker · 16/10/2016 16:34

*respect

Sorry for typos, am being driven in the car

Isitadoubleentendre · 16/10/2016 16:52

But even if they don't listen to women, men also think this was rape and DH was saying he would ask directly if these men would act exactly the same i.e. Enter a hotel room in the dark and put their dick inside a woman (that they have never met but know to be drunk) without speaking one word to her, rape have sex with her and then just leave without speaking another word to her. When asked this question bluntly and crudely they do seem to realise this isn't acceptable behaviour. Perhaps it's a question you could ask your DH, if you can bring yourself to discuss it with him again. Would he actually do the very same? If not, why not? If he would, well there you go. You know where you stand.

I think this is a really good point. i honestly think a lot of people still dont really understand what Evans actually did that night, or just haven't given it that much thought. They think it was just a case of 'she went back with a couple of footballers and then couldn't remember it the next day'. There was a lot of 'this sort of thing happens every weekend up and down the country and no one bats an eyelid'. But what Evans did really wasn't just a 'one night stand' he didn't speak to her before, during or after penetrating a woman he had never met before FFS, who in their right mind can think that is just 'boys will be boys behaviour'?

UnoriginalNN · 16/10/2016 16:57

If my DH took that stance I would be so, so, so fucking furious I would struggle to function without screaming. We have a DD and DD2 is on the way. Fortunately, he's just as much of a feminist as me. I feel really bloody awful for you.

What is it they say? When a man shows you who he really is, believe him.

Really hope you're okay. So angry for you!!

Grimarse · 16/10/2016 16:59

...men like this probably aren't going to have their minds changed by women (as they clearly think so little of them), so there is a real duty on men who disagree with this verdict to speak out in an attempt to make these "hurrah justice has been served" men realise how wrong they are.

I see this mentioned on FWR quite a bit. Why do people think this is true? Why does anyone think men would listen to other men on any subject merely because they are men? In my experience, nobody changes their mind on anything much, in real life or on the internet.

StrictlyPan · 16/10/2016 17:06

Grimarse - I think it's true, FWIW, unfortunately here and in RL. 'you can trust a mans judgement better because he is one of us, rational, better informed, than a woman who is more emotional and has a sectional interest drum to beat'.
And people do change their minds - esp young ones. Do you think and feel the same as when you were 17?

StrictlyPan · 16/10/2016 17:24

having said that, dd's mum asked me something about her car and I suggested it was due to her driving style. She bristled but days later asked the same question of a female colleague with a similar answer. But she was honest enough to say " I wasn;t going to take that reply from you, a man."...hey.

VestalVirgin · 16/10/2016 17:33

Grimarse, oh, men do not want to change their mind, sure. But they will shut the fuck up if a person who has the power to ruin their life (and in most cases, a man will have more of that power - at least he can punch them in the face) disagrees with their shitty attitude.
You are correct in that men who are told by other men that women are human will not suddenly acknowledge that fact. But I do think they will try to pretend a little harder. Because they consider other men people and want to fit in with other people.

DH was saying he would ask directly if these men would act exactly the same

I fear that quite a lot of them would. I really don't think that ignorance is the problem here.

And quite a few who would not will still feel that they should be entitled to act like this if they should ever be in the mood to do so. Or that the rapist deserves freedom because he is, after all, a human being and his victim a mere object.

You see, I would not destroy one of my chairs with an axe and then burn it. I consider that a waste of good furniture. But would I want someone who did it sentenced to prison? Of course not!
That's the way those men think, and that's why I don't think this method will be so successful in making them see the wrongness.

Shallishanti · 16/10/2016 17:47

OP, I'm sorry you have had this conversation with your H, it must be very upsetting

but.....'chanting her name'??? are people really doing that??so so shocking

also, I have to say, DP and DS both big football fans and as shocked as I am, it really is possible to like football AND respect women

PinkissimoAndPearls · 16/10/2016 17:58

I'm not necessarily expecting DH to change peoples' minds particularly by speaking up (especially those men who just don't give a fuck about consent themselves anyway). I just think it's really important that men speak up and condemn this as rape both so women know they are supported (because I for one feel as bitter as fuck at the moment) and people do get educated.

The only way women will stop being raped is if men stop raping them, at the end of the day. I think there is a lot to do to educate young people, especially young men, and sometimes a male role model is of value here.

Op has DC. It's harmful for young girls to hear the message from their parent that this wasn't rape, but it's bloody harmful too if young boys hear it.

I don't want to detail the thread and I certainly don't want to imply men's opinions carry more weight than womens.

BTW, i also sometimes feel the punch in the face for some fuckers is the best way especially at the moment