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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Do women use certain terms to 'shame' certain types of men?

639 replies

Enzouk · 14/10/2016 23:58

Just wondering about female perspectives on this. I increasingly hear women calling guys 'creepy' as a shaming tactic..generally I think that the women doing so do it only if they don't find the man attractive. Where as they will pander to a guy who is physically attractive to thrm they will hate on a guy who acts the exact same way who physically is not attractive to them. I have seen women do it in front of groups of friends in a sort of 'lets put this guy in his place' way. Thoughts? And what do you think of women who do this?

Also, i suppose on similar lines...are women more shallow than men with regards to physical attraction?

OP posts:
ClaudiaApfelstrudel · 17/10/2016 08:08

any man who is pestering a women and ignoring the fact she is not wanting his attention is a creep

this so much!

MostlyHet · 17/10/2016 08:17

That video - you genuinely think that is funny, Dadwashere? Oh dear.

And coming up next, videos of subtle, knowingly ironic yet humorous commentary on race relations in modern day Britain from those intellectual giants of the comedy circuit, Bernard Manning and Jim Davidson.

ChocChocPorridge · 17/10/2016 08:23

That video was just plain weird - there wasn't any comedy there, it was like 'nice guy' MRA propaganda...

SkyRabbit · 17/10/2016 08:39

Have read most of TFT but just thought I'd add my online dating experiences. The sense of entitlement from ALL guys is unbelievable - it doesn't seem to matter if they're 'conventionally attractive' or not. I've lost count of the amount of times I've been called stuck up, slapper, rude, ugly bitch just because I either didn't engage in conversation or said I didn't think we had a connection. It is immensely creepy. And I've submitted to Bye Felipe many times Grin
All the guys have to do is either leave me the fuck alone or just say 'ok thank you'
It's not rocket science OP.

ClaudiaApfelstrudel · 17/10/2016 08:44

I don't think I'd ever use an on-line dating thing the whole thing creeps me out completely. Could it be more seedy?

Marbleheadjohnson · 17/10/2016 08:53

I've used online dating a fair bit. It requires a thick skin. I also got far more attention when I was slim than when I was fatter. This doesn't surprise me, it is what it is. But the OPs suggestion that women are all shallow horrible bitches has to be considered in the context that men are also shallow horrible bitches. I suppose he's put a thread on Dadsnet asking why men ridicule fat/less attractive women?

Bikermum82 · 17/10/2016 08:59

Short fat woman here who works in a completelh male enviroment. The way they shame women is so much worse than someone being called creepy at a bar. They forget im female most of the time as in their eyes im an unfuckable old (33) munter who they have lovingly given the nickname butch!

Dervel · 17/10/2016 09:14

EBearhug yes she bit and dragged my shirt.

I do think mixed gender friendship circles are the answer.

Also a central contradiction is why do men ask cut price lotharios, about what women like, when you could just cut out the middle man and ask women?

ageingrunner · 17/10/2016 09:17

Because women are hysterical and illogical and it takes a special man who has studied us and managed to understand us to impart his knowledge to the other men. Like a David Attenborough of women.

SukeyTakeItOffAgain · 17/10/2016 09:25

Anyone else imagine an Attenborough narration of club behaviour? "And now we see the male circle his prey and edge in closer. He has chosen his mate."

Dervel · 17/10/2016 09:32

I have occasionally helped male friends who seem to have hard luck with women. It always comes down to bolstering low self esteem and confidence. Fix that and they have no trouble working out the rest on their own.

All of this pua nonsense is externalising an internal problem. A little bit of honest work on the self goes a long way.

Bikermum82 · 17/10/2016 09:41

"Here we see the rejected male turning to a feminist forum to vent his frustration at his lack of success!"

ISaySteadyOn · 17/10/2016 11:32

Love it, bikermum.

FreshwaterSelkie (love your NN btw), the sex dispenser analogy is not completely original. I believe it was originally sex vending machine, but a vending machine requires effort and coins so I changed it to dispenser as a dispenser is just supposed to give you what you need when you press a button.

Also, my old pedantic observation of words has come to the fore. I notice in the OP's title, he says 'women' and 'certain type of a man' thus acknowledging that there are different types of man (read: people), but women are one homogeneous mass. Yes, I may be overthinking, but I don't care. I am a giant nerd and it is how I entertain myself.

KickAssAngel · 17/10/2016 15:14

See, in a patriarchal society, there are downsides for everyone. If there are certain men who don't rank high enough to get the full-on white male supremacy treatment (The Man) then you know whose fault it is? Other men's. Not women's.

Yes, there are women who absorb the rules of the patriarchy to such an extent that they follow and endorse them, but it is still the winners in the game of patriarchy who made those rules. Blame the media if you want (just like Trump) or the ridiculously high % of white men who run companies and countries, but the people who invented those rules are men. They don't care if a few 'lesser' men don't get the same perks as them. They're happy if women sign up to the bizarre rules of dating and sexual attraction, but it is very definitely the fault of men, and the job of men to rectify it.

Try posting on a male-dominated site about why men perpetuate the idea that certain looks & behavior are better than others, and shouldn't men start changing this.

then come back and tell us how that worked out for you.

HillaryFTW · 17/10/2016 16:38

The homogeneity of "women" might be why OP thought Mumsnet should answer for some tinder "study"

I imagine the universe of crossover between MN users and tinder users (rather than, say, match.com or guardian soul mates or other OLD as opposed to OL-shag sites) is not the largest he could've found....

HillaryFTW · 17/10/2016 16:40

If women are sex vending machines , OP needs to look into some "women are people too" tokens - maybe Dervel has some spare!

Bikermum82 · 17/10/2016 19:41

www.radiox.co.uk/funny/official-bachelor-card-given-to-woman-in-bar/

This made me think of this. Not creepy at all Hmm

kua · 17/10/2016 21:43

I'm truly fucked off with my voice not being heard, on this thread alone we have had males coming on to guide us to their will. I have had a post deleted which the individuals lack of female biology was clearly shown. However, as it was linked to another post, I'll take the slap on the hand and won't do it again.

Basically, how can I call out misogynistic twats?

HillaryFTW · 17/10/2016 22:32

Kua

I've seen gone around a lot and I'm pretty sure she's a women, albeit one I disagree with massively.

The context of the old post you copied doesn't prove anything about anatomy.

Lessthanaballpark · 17/10/2016 22:52

and it does expose a harsh truth for a lot of men I think (i.e. that women will often treat them very differently based on their appearance alone)

FFS OP... welcome to our world. The fact that you are shocked and indignant about such an injustice shows the extent of your male privilege.

From the moment we hit puberty (even before) we girls learn that how we look is going to determine how we are treated. Why do you think women spend so much time and money on their looks.

So cry me a river.

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 17/10/2016 22:53

kua

gone is deffo a female

zefcal · 18/10/2016 01:03

I had to say that i think the OP makes some good points. Women are just as shallow as men and i have seen women treat men unfairly based on their looks (or lack of).

That video clip whoever posted it is funny too because its uncomfortably true for many people

zefcal · 18/10/2016 01:09

Also i think that the point the op is tryna make is tha most women can get sex whenever they want..its no achievement to start a sexual relationshio with a guy. Where as a guy must make an effort and find the courage to start interactions with women otherwise he's gonna be cast aside. Men have to compete for the women they want and that is just natural. I think all the OP is saying is not to be bitchy if a guy makes the effort to do what is naturally. It makes sense that if women treat men better then men will have more respect for women too. And if men see women be hypocritical about what is creepy then theyre prob also gomna have less respect for women. Just about everyone treatin each other better i think

Marbleheadjohnson · 18/10/2016 01:48

the OP has said nothing about "just as shallow as men". He has said that on a rare occasion, a man will do something creepy and upset a woman and be called creepy, and said man is ruining it for other men, but the large majority of the time women are just being shallow bitches and the Mumsnet feminism forum must explain. He's been mysteriously quiet in response to posters' examples of men actually being creepy, being laughed at by men for their looks, etc etc. Just keeps insisting there is this great unbalance where women hold all the power and men are hard done by.

Also, most women out in bars are not looking for casual sex. To approach them when you are under the assumption that they are means the outcome of your approach will probably not be what you hoped. The idea that women can get sex easily is neither here nor there. I can shave my head easily, but I don't want to do it.

"It makes sense that if women treat men better then men will have more respect for women too. And if men see women be hypocritical about what is creepy then theyre prob also gomna have less respect for women. Just about everyone treatin each other better i think" I prefer to spend my time with the men who have respect for women as a default setting, rather than those who have less respect for all women because some didn't want to have sex with them. I've said before that I had hideous verbal abuse about my looks from men - in bars, in the classroom, on the street, at work... I've also had much worse done to me by men. But I don't have less respect for men collectively as a result. Because, erm, not all men are like that. If someone's immaturity is such that they disrespect an entire sex for such spurious reasons, I'm not sure why the onus is on the likes of us to respect them and try and encourage them.

I'd ask OP again if he really, truly thinks a group of men out in a bar would treat an approach from Susan Boyle in the same way they would treat an approach from JLo or Margo Robbie.

zefcal · 18/10/2016 02:12

Marblejeadjohnson,

Yeah but his point was if i'm reading it right that there are men who cant use online dating because women give all their attention to the best looking guys so those guys have to approach women in other scenarios like out in bars/clubs etc or else theyre just gonna be waiting for the chance that a woman might like them in daily life which may not even happen (if the girls can just use other avenues like online dating etc, or just anything to get the best looking guys). Hes just saying that its not creepy for an average guy to try and chat to women up and about to see where it leads. Someone said that 'all men arent supposed to be fathers' or whatever and thats sounds terribly like saying 'well if these guys arent attractive to women then so be it they dont deserve to pass on their genes'. That sound awful. How it came across anyway.

I dont think guys would treat susan boyle the same but equally i dont think most guys would scold her id she was saying hello and being polite.