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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Do women use certain terms to 'shame' certain types of men?

639 replies

Enzouk · 14/10/2016 23:58

Just wondering about female perspectives on this. I increasingly hear women calling guys 'creepy' as a shaming tactic..generally I think that the women doing so do it only if they don't find the man attractive. Where as they will pander to a guy who is physically attractive to thrm they will hate on a guy who acts the exact same way who physically is not attractive to them. I have seen women do it in front of groups of friends in a sort of 'lets put this guy in his place' way. Thoughts? And what do you think of women who do this?

Also, i suppose on similar lines...are women more shallow than men with regards to physical attraction?

OP posts:
Girlwiththedragontattoo · 15/10/2016 09:00

Men who say 'it's not fair, women don't want me because I'm not good looking enough' almost always mean 'it's not fair, thin, tanned women ten years younger than me don't want me because I'm not good looking enough'.

This

Marbleheadjohnson · 15/10/2016 09:17

Women are not required to be open to a man's advances. I have never seen a group of women ridicule a man without him having done something to deserve it. I'm pretty average looking. I have been out lots with women who are drop dead gorgeous and get a constant stream of attention from guys, who they are just not interested in (because they're happy single, because they have a boyfriend, because they're gay, whatever). The men who approach her are "trying their luck" based on nothing other than the fact they think she is fuckable. If they were truly looking for love they'd not just constantly aim for the most gorgeous women around. Expecting these women to entertain a man's advances because the man thinks think she is fuckable is creepy in itself. At worst, women are doing nothing worse than the men who they are rejecting, . I expect you think a blank "no thanks" is rude and bitchy. I expect you think just ignoring the guy is bitchy. Like I said, I've never noticed a woman or women humiliate a man unless he has ignored the first sign that his target is not interested. Conversely, I have noticed men doggedly pursuing women who blatantly aren't interested and then get rude/aggressive/violent when the woman does not respond in a manner he would like. But I just put this down to those men being dickheads, I don't go whining to Menimism boards asking why men do this.

Oh yes Morris, haven't even touched on the age thing. Since you're so keen on tinder being true to real life, OP, here are a couple my own anecdotes - I get more approaches from people my mum's age than people my own age on online dating. Last time I went clubbing, which was last month, there was a group of gorgeous young women who could not have been older than 20 - slim, dressed up in short skirts/shorts, blonde hair, very pretty faces - what would typically pass as "hot girls". Circling around them like sharks was a group of fat, middle aged men who could easily pass for their dads - they did not leave the girls alone the whole night, and would try and block off any younger men who tried to approach them. In that situation, I think it would have been totally fine for the young women to ridicule the men, because the men were being ridiculous. They were being predatory and arrogant. I just shrugged my internal shoulders because I am so used to seeing this. I was out with three men that night though, and they were totally ripping the piss out of the middle aged men "trying their luck". Incidentally all three of those men I was out with are in relationships - one met his girlfriend in a club, he approached her, had a conversation and it bloomed from there (plenty of other times I've been out with him, he's approached women who rejected him and he just moved on, didn't get himself in a tizz about them being bitchy). One met his girlfriend through work - he's skinny and ginger, not some tall, dark handsome beefcake. He's incredibly intelligent, and very funny. He has on occasion, back in his single days, had a moan to me about how hard he found the dating scene - I could empathise, as having been a dumpy etnnic frizzy haired woman growing up with tall, slim, white, shiny-haired friends who always got approached while I never got approached, I knew how hard it was to even get someone want to talk to you if you're not the standard level of attractive. But, we're not bitter illogical idiots, so I didn't blame men for my predicament, and he didn't blame women for his, we just accepted that's society and how people have been conditioned. No one was obliged to find us attractive or give us attention.

The third guy I was out with, I met when we were 19 and he was already going bald then, and is pretty average loooking. He met his girlfriend through a shared interest. He met his previous girlfriend through mutual friends. He was single fora couple of years between the two, and in that time we hit the town a lot. Despite not being Channing Tatum, every time we went out together and he'd try and strike up conversation with women who weren't interested, he never got publically shamed. At best, he'd get a cheery "no thanks, I'm with my boyfriend/girlfriend/just here for a dance". At worst, he'd be ignored, but he'd shrug and hit the dance floor. I very much doubt he went to a feminism forum to complain.

Marbleheadjohnson · 15/10/2016 09:20

Paragraph fail

JubyLoob · 15/10/2016 09:22

I've only described a man as being 'creepy' when he acted in a creepy way. Not as a shaming tactic.

For example, the IT guy at work who sits too close to me and makes comments about my figure is creepy.

HTH

MorrisZapp · 15/10/2016 09:25

There was a study done about online dating which showed that virtually all men want to meet younger women. Those who didn't say so explicitly demonstrated it by their actions (ie who they reciprocated chat with) . You can Google it.

Men don't want women their own age or (heaven forbid) older, in dating/ clubbing situations.

gonetoseeamanaboutadog · 15/10/2016 09:31

I can see your point op. I don't think it's always the case, but sometimes advances from someone hot are welcome but would feel creepy if the person wasn't. It's not necessarily anything unpleasant being done and they couldn't know in advance. I agree it's not fair to label someone as creepy if all they did was show interest.

Terrifiedandregretful · 15/10/2016 09:35

Of course a woman is going to react differently to a man she fancies than to a man she doesn't. Sorry OP if you don't look like George Clooney, but it's not women's job to make you feel better about that. However, even the best looking man in the room is 'creepy' if he's bothering a group of women who aren't interested. And there is never a 'normal social situation' where there is no potential threat to women.

WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid · 15/10/2016 09:36

This thread is hilarious.

Op - are you aware that women are more attracted to good looking men than unattractive ones.

The time I most fondly think of when I guy asked if he could buy me a drink was one where he left very quickly.
He wasn't particularly good looking but was a very happy and relaxed bloke. Wandered over, was very polite, said I looked lovely and could he buy me a drink?
I said no (in a nice way cause he was very pleasant about it). His response was no problem, you have a great night, maybe I'll see you around sometime (I never did). He was lovely.

Sadly a lot of blokes can be s bit creepy. Last time it happened my friend and I were hit on by the same guy six times in one night (I'm not exaggerating). It was quite tragic.

midcenturymodern · 15/10/2016 09:41

You sound like Elliot Rodger.

"You girls have never been attracted to me. I don't know why you girls aren't attracted to me, but I will punish you all for it. It's an injustice, a crime, because... I don't know what you don't see in me. I'm the perfect guy and yet you throw yourselves at these obnoxious men instead of me, the supreme gentleman"

fwiw, Elliot Rodger is perfectly acceptable looking.

We don't owe our attraction to anyone
We don't owe our attention to anyone
We don't owe our time to anyone

We are allowed to flirt/be nice to/have sex with people we find attractive. We do not have to flirt/be nice to/have sex with people we don't find attractive. Men do not have a god given right to stick their oar in and have everyone fawn all over them and then bitch if woman don't behave in a suitably grateful manner. Your assertion that women 'aren't physically threatened' and therefore should simply donate their time and attention to a stranger for absolutely no reason shows how far removed the idea that women are people is from your mindset.

gonetoseeamanaboutadog · 15/10/2016 09:47

terrified the OP isn't complaining about less attractive men being rebuffed more often. He's not saying that women should put up with men bothering them either. He's complaining that women sometimes describe people they don't fancy who have shown an interest as creepy when they haven't ' bothered ' but have only done what might well have been welcomed by a hot guy.

It's not women's responsibility to put up with anything or soften the blow of rejection but it's everyone's responsibility not to label in a pejorative way.

Marbleheadjohnson · 15/10/2016 09:50

Most people here have said their experience is that men have only been called creepy when they have behaved creepily.

RebelRogue · 15/10/2016 09:52

There is a dad at school who's fairly attractive. He's wayyy too touchy feely,full of mysoginistic comments,and has already hit on one of the other mums at school. Some might call him friendly..nope he's creepy as fuck and i always got icky vibes from him,even before these behaviours.

FreshwaterSelkie · 15/10/2016 09:54

I find it very hard to worry about men who make women uncomfortable being mildly name-called and then forgotten about. I sleep well at night in a world that allows this.

SukeyTakeItOffAgain · 15/10/2016 09:57

Only read the first page but am boggling at the OP 's assumption that women out with their friends would welcome their evening being gatecrashed by an unattractive man, whereas a group of men on a lad's night out would in no way mock, belittle or insult an unattractive woman who insistently approached their group. Oh no, they would be perfect gentlemen.

Works both ways, OP.

Shiningexample · 15/10/2016 09:59

Women are the preferred source of sexual gratification and they are being monopolized by a minority of good looking 'high sexual market value' men
All the other men are pissed off because they don't get a look in, they swap stories on the manosphere, develop theories about the problem, discuss strategies about how to access sexual gratification.
Mostly to no avail

It's like, well...imagine a troop of chimps who have a favourite banana tree and a few big strong males are keeping it to themselves, all the other chimps are pissed off because the alpha chimps are monopolising the bananas

ChocChocPorridge · 15/10/2016 09:59

He's complaining that women sometimes describe people they don't fancy who have shown an interest as creepy when they haven't ' bothered ' but have only done what might well have been welcomed by a hot guy.

Personally I've only ever heard creepy men (whether good looking or attractive or neither) called creepy. It's a descriptive term for a feeling some people give you. I'd no more call a non-creepily behaving person creepy than I'd call a blond bloke a brunette - it makes no sense.

QueenSpartacusOfTheAndals · 15/10/2016 10:03

Having trouble getting laid OP? Here. Biscuit

Laniakea · 15/10/2016 10:04

I'm feeling so bad for all these Creepy Guys who have Tried Their Luck but not been appropriately rewarded with sex. It's so bad they go & kill themselves you know.

Terrible.

Have a heart Ladies.

FFS.

Shiningexample · 15/10/2016 10:05

The key thing is that women are primarily a resource and men compete with each other to get access to this resource

Marbleheadjohnson · 15/10/2016 10:06

Yes Suki. I suppose the OP would say when men have yelled horrible offensive comments at me while I have been going about my daily business (it's happened more times than I care to mention) is just the actions of a few dickheads ruining it for other men. But a woman sniggering at a man invading her space is something feminists must answer for.

almondpudding · 15/10/2016 10:09

I hope this is not the start of an influx of bizarre red pill questions.

gonetoseeamanaboutadog · 15/10/2016 10:14

Well, I have seen what the op is describing. And it's not very fair or kind. The mistake the op made was in raising this with a group of women who expect men to be fair and kind to them but have no plans to return the favour.

Shiningexample · 15/10/2016 10:15

So really we need to think about what we are doing when we hand out the bananas
Its not on to just give them to people whose company you enjoy, no they need to be shared out more fairly or the beta monkeys will get cross, things could get ugly for us lady monkeys, we must placate the beta monkeys for the good of society

SamanthaBrique · 15/10/2016 10:20

Of course you have gone, of course you have... Hmm

Laniakea · 15/10/2016 10:21

Gone what's the fair & kind way to deal with a man you approaches you when you're out with friends. You've done nothing to encourage his approach & since he's only 'trying his luck' he's not really interested in whether you want to talk to him or not?

How much of my time should I devote to making him feel good about himself? At what point in being kind am I obliged to provide him with sex?