Ched Evans verdict

[FreshwaterSelkie]

to continue the discussion as the previous thread closed.

"she wouldn't have agreed to testify in two trials unless she agreed with the police that she'd been raped."

Just to say, looking at the CPS policy, it does seem from a quick skim that prosecutions can start, and indeed proceed, without the victim reporting a rape, and that if the prosecutions proceeds without the victims wishes (as happens when victims change their minds), they can be compelled to give evidence in person in court, despite not wishing to proceed with the prosecution.

So, her agreement wasn't required either as to the initial prosecution, or to testifying.

Prosecutions can and do happen without a victim's co-operation. The idea "don't want to press charges" is not how it works. The CPS decide if any case goes ahead. There can be good reasons of public policy in proceeding with cases despite unwilling victims.

No, but it's extremely unlikely that they'd have proceeded with this trial if she'd been unwilling to testify. They would have known that the chance of conviction was very low if she didn't agree she'd been raped. Because there would be nothing to stop her saying as much in court in front of the jury.

It is very rare that women are compelled to testify. (It's wrong when they are, but that's a separate discussion)

When I say that it's wrong when women are compelled to testify - I think because of the particularly traumatic nature of rape trials, public policy shouldn't override the view of the victim. Giving evidence as a rape victim is harrowing, and to force it on someone amounts to cruel and inhumane treatment in my book.

It's a separate debate though.

Victims can be compelled to testify but don't like doing it as the defence can use the victims reluctance to claim she was making it up. She can be regarded as a hostile witness and the case likely to collapse. police are more likely to use clever persuasion to get the witness to give evidence.

The first question the police asked me when they told me my rapist had been caught was whether I was still willing to testify in court.

If I hadn't been, that would have affected the decision regarding whether to charge him. He may still have been charged, but my unwillingness would have been a risk in terms of likelihood of conviction.

Clever persuasion? What do you mean?

That wasn't my experience. They straight up asked me.

Woman I mean if a victim says she wants to drop her support for the prosecution, police will try to persuade her to continue rather than compell her.

Fannycabbage There is a gofundme page for the complainant where you can leave a message of support.

www.gofundme.com/help-ched-evans-complainant-2uj5pv8?rcid=a9dd64fa93e311e6b6a4bc764e04c5a7

It is not wrong that in certain circumstances victims are compelled to give evidence.

Re the assertion she asked for oral sex, I find it wholly implausible that a man would perform cunnilingus on a woman he knew nothing about and whose vulva must have had another man's sperm in/on it.

Is the term she is supposed to have used an expression which is generally and widely used by women?( I don't know, I hate cunnilingus and have no expression to ask for it)

Lass the oral sex is an odd one and I wish prosecution had grilled him on it. The term she supposedly used is what I'd call an old school term but still widely used.

Lass men performing oral sex on a woman who has had sex with an/many other men is a common theme in porn, as is a woman performing oral sex on a man who has penetrated multiple women - no idea if they actually do it in that order or if the tape is cut about, but I'm inclined to think it's done pretty much in order and the performers just have to accept it. I think because it's common in porn it's seen as an ok thing to do whereas maybe without that influence people might think it a bit yuck.

I missed what expression she allegedly used to ask for oral so cant comment on that.

"men performing oral sex on a woman who has had sex with an/many other men is a common theme in porn"

CEs whole account was like a porn script................

Battery in porn terms it's called a "cream pie" but I'm surprised non porn stars would do that. Mcdonald said he left room cos he wasn't into all that (whatever all that is) yet evans said they'd had threesomes in the past. My guess is if mcdonald was as coy as he made out (getting dressed in the bathroom) he would not be turned on by Evans tasting his sperm. And why get dressed in bathroom when allegedly both Evans and the victim had already seen him naked? For a sleazy scumbag he was surprisingly modest.

"Fannycabbage There is a gofundme page for the complainant where you can leave a message of support.

www.gofundme.com/help-ched-evans-complainant-2uj5pv8?rcid=a9dd64fa93e311e6b6a4bc764e04c5a7
"
It is heartening to see the messages that have already been left, and how many people do care -- so worth reading even if you can't afford to contribute. When I'm feeling very down about this, I go and look.

Some dyke thanks for the link. I will donate x

Queen I am somewhat jaded by my past, I would be the first to admit, but I have come into contact with plenty of men into that kind of thing.

IMHO it is a huge red flag that the guy is a rapist piece of shit because it's all part of the woman as receptacle bullshit surrounding porn type activity.

Plenty of blokes aren't put off by one another's semen - what's that game, wank biscuit? Where they all come on a biscuit and one eats it? Anyway I digress.

MacDonald may not have been into it in the same way as Evans. Maybe he's just a slightly nicer person.

Maybe he's just a slightly nicer person

Only just. Or maybe he played it all down in court as he is/was embarrassed about his sexual preferences being aired in public and didn't want the whole country to know what a sleaze he is.

Either way I doubt either of the men were that bothered about the victim being grilled for 3 hours about her sexual history/preferences.

Soon as this teething monster finally succumbs to sleep I'll have a look, thank you. It looks like a lovely light in a dark time for her x

I would love to see a #solidarity campaign that educates men and women alike about sexual assault and rape - and that says, actually no, I'm not okay with how victims are treated, i'm not okay with the onus always being on the victim asking for it, and I'm not okay with so much banter about rape. I'd love to show this girl and all others out there that we stand with them and for them and that together, enough of us can be a voice for those who don't or can't or are too frightened to. I haven't been able to read through everything on this thread, so forgive me if this has been talked about. Can we do this? How do we do this? I feel so impotent on her behalf, on our behalf. I want to do something to make a difference, to stand up and say enough.

Fanny some ideas: you can find out if there is a 'Reclaim the night' march near you, gather your friends and get out there, and you can share the 'tea and consent' video and the Janine Booth 'real rape' poem as extensively as possible. Also sign the petition, and write to your MP. Local feminist groups may have other things you want to get involved in.

There is a local group looking for helpline volunteers dealing with victims of rape. I wasn't ready to get involved before but I think I am now.

For the record two weeks ago I was interviewed by a uni research group about my experience in court. The results will be presented to the cps. One of the questions was what had I learned from it? I said it taught me that if I ever break the law I'll know what to say and do in order to be acquitted.

Thanks, Charlie, I'll definitely look into it.

queen did they ask you to expand on that answer or was it a written thing?