Ched Evans verdict

[FreshwaterSelkie]

to continue the discussion as the previous thread closed.

And if she was spiked early enough on, then by the time the police were on the case 12 hours had probably passed.

Yes Bird. CCTV showed her in a take away before where she fell over, (with no suggestion it was a case of simple, sober tripping) so she was already not OK: she was drunk/drugged whatever.

Re Karl Massey , I've been discussing this with my husband. We are the parents of a son only but are both mystified why the father of a daughter would stand so solidly with a man who has treated his daughter so badly.

Husband thinks Massey must either have behaved in a similar way or at best can't see what's wrong with Evans' behaviour, therefore Evans has to be innocent because otherwise what does it say about Massey?

I imagine conversations over the Massey breakfast table with "ah thats how I met your mother love, don't worry - he'll never be found guilty"...

I think it tells us that Karl Massey hates women. I don't think the reasons are that much more complicated. Anyone who spends that amount of money on someone who behaved so appallingly towards a vulnerable young women & by extensive showed a breath taking level of contempt in respect of the relationship he had with Massey's daughter, must just really hate women. There's no sense of outrage at what CE's actions said about his attitude towards his own daughter. So I can only surmise that he shares that attitude. Towards women. £5M to end up with a future SIL who cheated on his own DD in a manor that was reprehensible at best - who the fuck does that unless they just really hate women?

But Massey really is in a league of his own.

Even the worst "daddy of a princess" who couldn't give a toss about other people's daughters usually makes an exception when it's his own princess being treated badly.

“Drunken consent is nevertheless still consent.

“While disinhibited through drink the woman did consent to sex, firstly with Clayton McDonald and then with Ched Evans.”

This just drives me mad. In practice it means a drunk girl is allowed to be raped. She can't win either way: either it was still consent/she was just dis-inhibted. Or, she can't remember anyway (because she was drunk or drugged)so her testimony must be unreliable/she was drunk, so her testimony must be unreliable.

Self made millionaires are a strange bunch. Evans was a trophy to Massey, wealthy and able to support his beauty therapist daughter. I'm guessing dad didn't want to be bailing out his daughter for the rest of his life. Millionaires like to keep hold of their cash. I bet Evans will be paying off pops for some time to come. And evans will play loyal boyfriend for a few years but will be sticking it somewhere he shouldn't.

I can kind of understand or imagine the thought process of thinking CE didn't rape as demonstrated by all the IAmChed# dicks ("she was asking for it, she's a whore") I can see there are men who think like that, but I don't get why Massey wouldn accept CE "disrespecting" his daughter by shagging a girl in a hotel room even if he only saw it as infidelity. What kind of dad thinks it's OK for his son in law to cheat on his daughter?

Probably the kind of dad who sees nothing wrong with playing away and it's a girlfriend's / fiance's / wife's job to accept their partner's indiscretions with quiet good grace. I wonder, for example, how he treated her mother.

On another note two things concern me.
Evans said he watched McDonald have sex with the victim and after she asked Evans to perform oral sex on her which he did. Anyone think it odd he would want to taste his mates cock/sperm?
Also McDonald left the room as Evans was on the girl but told reception to keep an eye on her as she was ill. Why would he risk his mate being seen in the room by concerned staff?
Something doesn't add up here.

That's a really good point about the oral sex, it's not unbelievable, but he probably should have been questioned further about it. She was put through the ringer about her sexual history and behaviour, why shouldn't he be?

I've always thought there was something homosexual about men 'sharing' a girl, as in men in the closet using it as a reason to get near other men's bodies.

Evans claimed they had threesomes before and described McDonald as "a good looking guy". When mcdonald left the room, Evans lost his erection and stopped...hmmm

I agree Queen, 2 men having a 3 some with one woman seems to be quite a common fantasy among men. There's nothing wrong with homosexuality, but I get the feeling if you ever questioned them about it they would deny it fiercely.

Yes why couldn't they just be men about their feelings and bang each other leaving vulnerable teenagers out of the equation.

IIRC, in the last trial, apparently Clayton McDonald said that once Ched got involved he stopped because "that isn't his sort of thing", and that's why he went to the bathroom to get dressed then left. Telling reception that she was sick.

Which makes me wonder, given that CMcD probably wasn't expecting CE to actually lie to get another key and let himself into the hotel room, maybe he was also a bit, erm, uncomfortable with Ched being there, standing watching. Wanting to join in.

Maybe Ched's predilections for threesomes with Clayton are much more than vice versa.

And yes, I really think this should have been explored further. Ched and Clayton's sexual history in this particular regard is so, SO much more relevant than the victim's.

Yes because McDonald's text to Evans may not have been a invite but a statement of fact. Evans could have knocked on the door if McDonald had invited him, rather than get a key from reception.

Ah aye perhaps that's why the defence didn't call macdonald. Maybe his evidence would be damning given he didn't have his own trial to worry about

Come to think of it I find it shocking that they didn't explore that further during either trial.

Guess it's yet another reflection on how in rape trials the victim is under more scrutiny than the defendant. So wrong.

I've read that the friendship was a long one but at the time of the rape Evans was the richer more successful one. He booked and paid for McDonald's room who was supposed to sleep there. But he hung around the hotel lobby and left, going back to Evans mums house with evans at 5 am. Strange behaviour.

McDonald's career seems to have pretty much been ruined by this. He's been slipping downwards on teams and making fewer and fewer ( or is that less and less? I never can remember) appearances with none in 2016.

Very strange behaviour when CE said the reason for booking the hotel was (not to get a girl) but because they couldn't stay round his mum's 4 bedroom house as there wasn't enough room.

Why leave the hotel then? Which he booked because there was no room at his mother's house, the same house he went back to (after disappearing down the fire escape).

He booked the hotel room for them to take whatever victim woman they snared to. But he booked it in macdonald's name so that when/if his suspicious girlfriend saw the payment and checked with the hotel it would be in macdonald's name and CE would just be the generous mate making sure his buddy had a room for the night. 'Cause he's nice like that