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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Are you Spartacus? Call to action

70 replies

CharlieSierra · 02/10/2016 20:13

If you feel that you would like to do something more than discussing the issues here, please consider writing to your MP. A poster StephanieDA has posted an excellent link and letter template on the trans in children's and young people's services thread.

www.transgendertrend.com/uk-government-trans-legislation-update/

OP posts:
CharlieSierra · 04/10/2016 19:20

I wrote to mine when Tara Hudson got sent to a women's prison, just asking if he knew that TH was a sex worker with a 7 inch functioning penis as self described on their adult works profile. I might have pointed out that their alleged 'extensive surgery' described in the press was restricted to silicone breast implants, hair extensions and acrylic nails, and asked whether he supported that persons right to be incarcerated with women after being convicted of head butting a bar worker and knocking his teeth out. I got a lily livered reply which made me so cross I wrote back again. He definitely thinks I'm a transphobic bigot! I haven't had a reply yet to my latest letter.

OP posts:
Cisoff · 05/10/2016 03:40

Thanks. Would love to have a pinned post with reputable articles and research.

One step at a time though, eh?

Agerbilatemycardigan · 05/10/2016 05:40

I have emailed the letter to Amber Rudd. Not expecting a response, but at least I've done it...

MoreCoffeeNow · 05/10/2016 06:41

Still Spartacus. I'm in.

Amalfimamma · 05/10/2016 06:58

Placemarking as I will be back later to get a better read.

Will be sending the letter though and passing it on to non MN friends to do the same

YetAnotherSpartacus · 05/10/2016 12:39

If people have time to read in their busy lives then a look at the original report is instructive.

www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201516/cmselect/cmwomeq/390/390.pdf

Most interesting are the positions of some of the lobbyists. These are available by clickable links.

Here is one from a group of lesbians who speak of their invisibility and marginalisation in the debate

data.parliament.uk/WrittenEvidence/CommitteeEvidence.svc/EvidenceDocument/Women%20and%20Equalities/Transgender%20Equality/written/19560.html

There are others from women and women's groups speaking out against the transagenda and for women and women's only spaces.

I've not looked at them all, but I have dome some searches and have found they are barely mentioned in the report.

Yet, pro-trans groups get copious mention.

The main point, though, is that more transmania lunacy is revealed if you read some of the submissions, as well as the words that actually made it into the report.

roarfeckingroar · 05/10/2016 12:51

I am Spartacus. It shall go to my MP, MEP, Cllrs.

Just a tip though, as a former political aide, don't send a template. Mix it up, pepper it with real instances even scenarios that happens to "a friend" that mean the MP's assistant has to personalise.

Most MPs IM(vast)E won't read your lette and won't respond themselves; they're staffer will and they might discuss their stance then read over the drafted response before signing. When we used to receive those templates from 38 degrees etc where all you have to so is put in your name and address to send a standard template letter/email we would write one answer and copy/paste, thinking that if the constituent doesn't care enough to take the time to construct a letter themselves then a set reply would do.

roarfeckingroar · 05/10/2016 12:53

THEIR!!! THEIR STAFFER!!!

ChocChocPorridge · 05/10/2016 12:53

Good God - I randomly clicked on one (OK, it was because he said he was Master Sifu, and that made me think of Kung Fu Panda), and it turned out to be a MTT offering 'Military Grade' 'Urban Self Defence' training to other MTTs (and referred minority groups) who was upset because when he contacted the Police on Facebook they didn't help him find a space to provide this training in!

Oh, and that hair lasering/facial feminisation surgery/adams apple reduction and paperwork in the sex they desire to be from the moment they decide they want to transition (yeah, no mention of FTT funnily enough).

That's just what will make women accept MTT in their spaces - feminised martial arts experts. Certainly makes me feel safer :S

YetAnotherSpartacus · 05/10/2016 13:15

roarfeckingroar - too late - the grammar police are already on their way :)

ChocChocPorridge - now you feel my pain :). Mind you, I think you did get an extreme one...

venusinscorpio · 05/10/2016 18:47

Thanks roar, that's really useful info about political aides responding to letters.

EmpressKnowsWhereHerTowelIs · 05/10/2016 18:52

Yes, thanks roar. I've already sent the template. Is it worth also sending a rewrite?

ChocChocPorridge · 05/10/2016 19:16

I would hope that that was an extreme one.

I also read the submission from the GMC which was very non-committal on the whole idea of trans, and spoke a little about related complaints and investigations - including one doctor who was struck off for not performing proper due diligence before medicating people who presented to him as trans.

Which was actually comforting - to read them being very conservative, rather than jumping in with both feet (perhaps that belongs in the other thread about professional/children/transing)

CharlieSierra · 06/10/2016 20:01

I still haven't received so much as an acknowledgement from my MP. Sad

OP posts:
WankingMonkey · 07/10/2016 13:42

I want to start a change petition, though I expect it will fail. Can I get some help on the wording please..as articulating my feelings is not a strong point of mine. The petition for now is about women only spaces. I did not know how to add in anything ab out transing children as every time I tried it came across as aggressive, where I feel what i have so far comes across as...reasonable and not ranty? Also I feel one step at a time, if we can convince enough people to think this matter through properly, then the attitude towards gender non-conforming children will also change and puberty blockers and such will (hopefully) be seen as child abuse/homophobia rather than acceptable.


It is becoming increasingly concerning the stance the Government appears to be taking on this matter. Whilst it is understandable that transgender people require safety as much as anyone else, I do not feel this position has been thought through. Allowing transgender people into the bathroom, changing room, rape crisis centre, prison etc. of their 'gender' will put many vulnerable people at risk for the sake of sparing a few feelings.

These areas were never segregated by gender. It has always been about biological differences between the sexes. What I feel is happening at the moment is a (sometimes purposeful) mixing up of sex and gender. Gender is a 'feeling'. Sex cannot be changed, it is biology.

The stance of 'we need sex segregation, but not for certain people' does not make any sense at all. I understand a lot of people think sex segregation is no longer necessary but a quick look at the male on female violence/sex offense stats says otherwise. We simply cannot have sex segregation with exceptions. Especially when said exceptions include at present, people who 'identify' as the opposite sex yet make no changes to themselves besides putting on a dress or cutting their hair.

I and many others would support transgender people in creating their own safe spaces, we would campaign alongside them and help in any way we can. I just do not feel 'cis' people should effectively budge over and give up their rights to spare 'feelings' of others. If transpeople do not feel safe or comfortable in the bathrooms of their biological sex, then a further option is needed. Biological sex should not just be ignored in favour of a feeling in ones head. Some would say this suggestion is 'othering' which it may well be BUT again, areas were never separated by 'gender' or feelings..it was and still is about biological differences between males and females.

I know a lot of people are still of the mindset that 'trans should be protected at all costs' but actually thinking about what is being proposed instead of blindly accepting it (as I did until recently) should change some peoples minds. What is being proposed here, is that the safety of transwomen should come above the safety of women. I don't think it is acceptable to take away the rights of one group to protect another. Hence my suggestion of 'unisex' options along with male and female.

I have a close friend who was violently raped by a male a few years ago. She is terrified of being alone with males as a result. She suffers terrible anxiety even being near a male in a public space, nevermind alone with one. Is it really right to tell women like this to just get over it and accept any male who 'identifies' as female into her safe spaces? I have another friend who was recently beaten up by a transwoman. Said transwoman did not reveal that she had a penis until the last minute. As a result my lesbian friend did not want to carry on once she found out that this person was a male. Transwoman said that stance was transphobic and physically hit her, causing a black eye that lasted over a week. This friend still gets grief to this day about being 'transphobic' because she did not want to sleep with someone who looked like a female but was male once the makeup and clothes were stripped away. The current Government stance, along with media reporting encourages instances like this.

The trans-agenda is damaging to women especially, given it is women who are more at risk of sex offenses and violence perpetrated by men. I would really appreciate assurance that in the UK we will not be going down the route that the USA is, where 'female only' colleges are accepting men, and it is an offense to ask a man to leave the womens changing rooms because they might 'identify' as a woman. No place was ever 'gender' segregated. This needs to be remembered.

WankingMonkey · 07/10/2016 13:57

I wan to add in a bit about how 'GRC's just add to societal pressures placed on people to play up to stereotypes also, but not sure if that would be overkill.

WankingMonkey · 07/10/2016 15:32

www.change.org/p/theresa-may-mp-keep-sex-segregated-areas-sex-segregated?recruiter=602712239&utm_source=share_for_starters&utm_medium=copyLink

Maybe a bit rushed but I showed the wording to my sister (who was depressingly 'yay trans) and she seems to understand it completely and reckons nothing comes across as transphobic in what I have written.

It won't get the signatures required no doubt, but I feel I have done something to help at least now. Slightly worried about name and location showing though :S

Now, mustering up the courage to share this on my facebook among my 'liberal' friends. Have a feeling I may start another world war tbh as my LGB friends I know will be on my side, its the others that will kick off...

WitchingHour666 · 07/10/2016 16:21

WM, I started a change petition also, based on Stephanie's letter. Mine is primarily to spead awareness.

www.change.org/p/theresa-may-mp-a-review-of-how-laws-based-on-gender-identity-conflict-with-laws-based-on-biological-sex?recruiter=607651790&utm_source=share_for_starters&utm_medium=copyLink

WankingMonkey · 07/10/2016 16:31

OH ok, sorry, I didn't know one had been started already Blush

Signed.

Datun · 07/10/2016 16:33

Well done Wanking and Witching

I've written to my MP. I've gone with the AGP angle. Please tell me if this isn't logical, but here's why:

The idea that it's gender and not sex, that defines womanhood is currently the only key that is opening to the door to men. It is their entire arsenal and EVERYTHING rests on that one concept being accepted and then legitimised. And it's gaining traction everywhere. Very fast.

As we can make absolutely no distinction between those with (17%-80%) and those without AGP, we are being asked to share our spaces with a percentage of men who gain a sexual thrill from our very presence there - with zero way of knowing and 100% certainty that we will be unwittingly complicit.

For me, whilst AGP is certainly not the only problem, indeed may not even be top of the list, it is certainly the one which will get noticed. The fact that it's not even mentioned in Maria Miller's report is shocking and very telling.

I'm not diminishing the other arguments, I'm using what's in OUR arsenal; using a line of reasoning which is undeniable.

They want access for any man on the basis of gender. I think the AGP aspect will stop every man on the basis of sex.

WankingMonkey · 07/10/2016 16:42

Just tried typing autogynephilia into google...top result?

"Autogynephilia" is a sex-fueled mental illness made up by Ray Blanchard. Blanchard defines it as "a man's paraphilic tendency to be sexually aroused by the thought or image of himself as a woman."

Made up sex fueled mental illness eh?

Not even on a link, it is presented as fact in plain text at the top of the page...

vesuvia · 07/10/2016 16:51

WankingMonkey wrote - "These areas were never segregated by gender."

I suggest that you should consider including a brief explanation in your text explaining what you mean by gender, because I think nowadays most people think that gender means biological sex. To them, sex and gender are the same thing and I think they will be very puzzled and confused when you try to make your point that things should be segregated by sex not gender.

I think it may be worth including some clarification that, to gender-critical feminists, gender does not mean (a) biological sex or (b) gender identity (e.g "feeling like a woman"). To gender-critical feminists, gender is a hierarchical social construct that is used to control people's behaviour. This meaning of gender is more strictly gender role which, because it is assigned on the basis of biology, is also sex role.

Datun · 07/10/2016 16:58

That was written by a TRA wanking.

Other gems are it's made up to discredit lesbian trans-women and it's not confined to men, natal born women practice it every day.

You couldn't make it up. Oh wait...

Thelilywhite · 07/10/2016 16:58

Thanks to monkey and witching
Have signed, Have also sent previous template letter to my MP months ago. Nothing back not even an acknowledgement I won't give up though and will send a third more personalised one as suggested by a poster up thread.
I work in education and at the start of term had to attend trans PD facilitated by a well known LBGTQ organisation. It was only an hour ' to get up to date' with terminology but I don't know how I managed to keep my mouth shut having avidly read threads on here with mounting horror. I felt a bit of a wimp for not speaking up tbh but I had already got short shrift from colleagues for saying during the Olympics that I thought it was ridiculous that transwomen were allowed to run in women's races. Don't dare bring the subject up again as I fear I may be disciplined fir discrimination if my managers get wind of my views, we have several transitioning students.

Mrskeats · 07/10/2016 16:59

I'm in. On my to do list

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