Only trans women have vaginas, women have 'front holes'

[Triskaidekaphobic]

That's according to this Guide to safer sex for trans people

VAGINA: We use this word to talk about the genitals of trans women who have had bottom surgery.”

FRONT HOLE: We use this word to talk about internal genitals, sometimes referred to as a vagina. A front hole may self-lubricate, depending on age and hormones.

FFS when is this madness going to end. Trans activists are attempting to appropriate or erase everything about being female.

I will never call my vagina a front hole, it's not a hole and tbh I find it grossly offensive to women to refer to it as such.

Calling a vagina a 'front hole' is nonsense
Calling a clitoris a 'dick' is nonsense
Calling a penis a 'strapless' is nonsense

Whatever the gender identity of a human, their genitalia is still what it is. Vaginas are not holes.

"botanically, motherfuckers, you don't see any problem at all with a leaflet that tells women they have front holes and men that they have vaginas? Really?"

The leaflet doesn't say that though.

I am not homophobic and I really resent that slur. I've reported your post.

In what way am I homophobic?

And in what way is the leaflet not saying that?

Anyway I'm outta here, it's of no interest to me to have a discussion with folk who lack basic reading comprehension skills

No, Lynda, sorry to jump on you, but I think homophobic was aimed at me, and I would rather that it was left to stand. I take no insult from it because it's laughable. Might as well insult me by calling me an elf or something!

This is leaflet is massively womanphobic.

This leaflet is not aimed at women. It is aimed at trans gender people. It is not suggesting that women use the word 'front hole'. The leaflet doesn't have to tell us what women's genitals are called. We know this. There is gender variance in the world, and I do not have a problem with a leaflet that talks to trans people in their commonly used language.

I don't recall calling anyone homophobic actually selkie, just reiterating why I personally did not have a problem with the language in this leaflet.

This leaflet isn't for cis people and it explains very clearly why they have chosen the words they have chosen. I don't think it harms anyone what someone else wants to call their genitals while they are having sex. I don't care if you call it a food or a lady garden or a dick or a cunt or whatever else you want to call it. Trans people are not stupid and will be able to use the scientific terms to describe symptoms to a doctor if they need to (think abut it - they are probably speaking to their doctors about their genitals more than most people, in some cases) but this is specifically a leaflet about sexual relationships.

I think some people are just searching for something to get pissed off over.

This is crazy talk!

It's like infant talk or a dumming down to discribe a females anatomy which has been around since time began! Its insane ....

It's just so fucking stupid.

lol mathanxiety.

I am all woman here as well. With a vagina.

It does read a bit as though the universe is being rewritten to pertain largely to men, with respect to all this.

Women have in the past hundred years stepped forwards out of thousands of years of oppression. I would not want women's liberation to be undermined by this gender confusion. Especially as it has appeared that some very vulnerable women have been dispossessed/ made more vulnerable as a result of manipulation of these ideas.

It doesn't need stating?

The guide includes a glossary. Clearly therefore there is plenty that needs stating. The glossary attempts to substitute a whole new language for formerly well understood terms.

'DICK:
We use this word to describe external genitals. Dicks come
in all shapes and sizes and can belong to people of all genders.
FRONT HOLE:
We use this word to talk about internal genitals,
sometimes referred to as a vagina. A front hole may self-lubricate,
depending on age and hormones.
STRAPLESS:
We use this word to describe the genitals of trans
women who have not had genital reconstruction (or “bottom
surgery”), sometimes referred to as a penis.
VAGINA:
We use this word to talk about the genitals of trans
women who have had bottom surgery. '

Who is "We" here?

How can one group of people appropriate terms and use them for non-equivalent body parts?

There is imo something sinister and dysfunctional about this conceptualisation:
'PARTS:
We use this word when we’re talking about genitals or
sexual anatomy of any kind'
The unfortunate connotation of spare parts, kits, hardware shops and robotics is very problematic.

A clitoris is now a Dick?
No it ain't.

I'm not cis - I'm just a fucking woman. Was born one and last time I checked was still am.

Referring to women as a collection of holes...

Jesus, could there be a more revolting example of male hatred of women ?

I'm not a fucking cis woman. There's no such thing as a cis woman. The term is grossly offensive.

What was this post at 07:07 then? Yes, because I am not homophobic

Who or what is homophobic if it wasn't in answer to my question.

I am highlighting the massive misogyny in that leaflet. If it's aimed at trans men, which it is, it is doing them a huge disservice by reinforcing the cultural narrative that makes it impossible for them to be gender non conforming and happy. Then there's the collateral damage it does to women by taking the word "vagina" away from biologically female to biologically male, while leaving the word "dick" for anyone who wants it.

I can't get past the ever so twee "bottom surgery".
What a load of PC bollocks - or CIS men dangly bits.

Motherfuckers Sat 03-Sep-16 07:20:08
This leaflet is not aimed at women. It is aimed at trans gender people

And Menz Rights sites are not aimed at women either.
But they express a certain view of women.

And that is clear in the 'safe sex' pamphlet too.

Referring to women as a collection of holes

It's bloody awful

I don't understand why MN allow the word cis to be used when so many find it insulting.

I don't either cath but I don't think it's PC enough to make an issue out of.

In fact the moment they do they will be accused of being transphobic which I think goes against the 'brand' and image of the site.

I too feel assaulted when people use the term cis to describe me.

And I feel assaulted when I am described falsely as homophobic.

Why are these assaults allowed on Mumsnet?

There is a very strong impetus in our society for men to take over and lead in an area in which they get a foothold.

I can sympathise with men who have felt they had a female gender orientation from a young age, and have struggled with identity issues all their lives.

I would wish them a successful transition.

However, I do not think concern for the rights and sensitivities of transgender people entitle the renaming of the gender of XX chromosome women as if we are somehow lesser women. Neither do I think women (XX women) who are homeless or in prison should have to be exposed to erm people with male genitalia who would like to pass as women. And might potentially be sexually aggressive.

I think it is not the way forward to pretend that your genitalia is different to how it is, basically. I think we need to treat the person with respect, and allow for difference, but not fantasise that it doesn't exist.

Sorry, thinking now that XX isn't right either, because of testicular feminisation