Trans Understanding Help

[Itsallveryconfusing]

Hello.

Please be gentle as I'm not very knowledgeable about this but I'm trying to learn.

My eyes have been opened due to the recent threads like the I am Spartacus ones. I have always been very liberal and believed that someone can be born in the wrong body when it comes to makes feeling like a woman etc. I've come to see that gender is more a social concept.

I've been speaking with DH about this who, again, is very liberal and believes in equality and is pro women rights, although his workplace is very male orientated. He's not afraid to argue against the party line that women are weaker emotionally etc. His view on trans is very much live and let live he firmly believes that if someone wants to identify as female or male then they should be allowed to, as it must be awful to feel trapped. He was shocked that my view is changing and that my views are more in standing with hard right wingers who look at equality is a dirty word.

Sorry for the essay but I'm struggling with what I know is correct in my head with the concept that people should be happy and if that makes them happy then I should respect.

Yes littleprincesssara, many tranaswomen are murdered by men. Maybe you should look into that.

The transwomen murdered by men are generally poor homosexual POC living in highly conservative communities, often in prostitution, not white middle aged middle class "lesbians".

YY Flora. So much misrepresentation and ignorance when people just parrot things unthinkingly.

Shouldn't we be educating boys to be nice to boys in dresses? Seriously, why can't we do that? Instead of accepting and expecting male violence.

"Sex is biological. Gender is a societal construct. It's called transGENDER not transSEX."

Exactly little. And facilities and sports are segregated by sex, not gender identity. I don't have a gender identity. I'm still a woman and entitled to use women's facilities

"Shouldn't we be educating boys to be nice to boys in dresses? Seriously, why can't we do that? Instead of accepting and expecting male violence"

Yep. Doing that. Alongside educating boys to be nice to girls in dresses.

Not the point.

lumpy
Shouldn't we be educating boys to be nice to boys in dresses? Seriously, why can't we do that? Instead of accepting and expecting male violence.

Male violence is the reality we are dealing with. Shouldn't we be dealing with that. Transwomen are men. Shouldn't they be speaking out about male violence rather than trying to invade women's spaces?

I don't think lumpy was advocating trans women invading women's spaces necessarily.

I don't think lumpy was advocating trans women invading women's spaces necessarily.

Erk sorry

Oh no I am sorry. Tired and just a bit mad about it all I think

I'm not too happy about "Has to have lived as "woman" two years" either, if that doesn't include having his penis surgically removed.

Sorry, but there's a reason we used to separate the sexes in prison. And just because a male has worn a dress for two years doesn't mean he's not capable of raping a woman in prison.
Or, at the very least, if I am very generous and assume that no transwoman would ever commit rape (which is of course nonsensical) making women uncomfortable in the showers. There's many occasions where it is expected that women share showers with other women, and while I am already a bit uncomfortable with that, and don't think anyone should be forced to do it, it is my understanding it is the case in prison.

No woman should ever be forced to see a penis. Period.

It is sad that transwomen fear that men will harm them, but they're in the same boat as effeminate gay men there. The problem is male violence, and that needs to be solved.

Thank you IBelieveTheEarthIsFlat

I hold up the Huffington Post as a particularly guilty party in this. FWIW I agree with the Huff post on quite a lot, but the constant TA stance has put me right off it.

I'm a lefty, I'm socially liberal, I'm live and let live. I recognise oppression when I see it. I am also a feminist who knows that women (ALL women - all ages, all races, all abilities, all levels of fitness) are at risk of violence from men. This is why we have sex-segregation.

I don't think lumpy was advocating trans women invading women's spaces necessarily.

No she didn't! By "we" educating men to be nice to men in dresses I meant society in general. Instead they are handing over our right to privacy. They just accept that trans women will be in danger so usher them into the ladies instead of thinking "bloody hell that's not on, better do something about male violence then." It's that casual acceptance that men are violent that angers me so much.

Sorry if I didn't explain myself well.

I think the problem was that a poster called littleprincesssara posted just before you defending trans ideology.

I see, righto then.

I was just pointing out people had got it wrong.

Or the many masculine looking/butch biologically women who get abused and beaten up and thrown out of ladies look because society deems them not sufficiently female (despite being born with a vagina and an xx chromosome) to use women-only spaces.

--

Genuine question, has this ever happened? I can't particularly se it and of course if it has it is horrific. But I have never ever heard of anything remotely like this..

Sorry venus that Righto sounded well passive aggressive!

It just meant, cool, thanks for clearing that up! [grin}

Tortoise, the butch women / trans men are often used by the trans lobby in the us to aid their cause. they show you a picture of someone with a beard and state do you want this person in your bathroom? I always think that if they are female, sure, come on in.

I am so angry as we should be challenging gender and ripping down the stereotypes but now the borders are being policed. I swear it's just a derailment to stop women achieving equal status in society.

Grin failure, cursed I am, cursed...

This account from a butch lesbion

Just shows how toxic gender roles are.

Classic liberal lefty, my original stance was "poor them, live and let live." But as I have learned more my position has changed.

I have come to understand that the claim, by no means restricted to vile misogynists like Ada Wells, that "transwomen are women" is of itself extremist. Once you accept this fiction all the rest of the bollocks follows.

I will not concede one centimeter of woman-only space to these guys. I don't identify as a woman, I am a woman. Men have no right to wear woman-face; to treat our material reality like a costume.

No worries, lumpy

Princess - if transwomen are allowed to be scared of male violence and come and deserve to come hide with us in the ladies for their protection, why can't women similarly be scared of male violence and not want transwomen with them in the ladies?

littlepricesssara the figures for murdered transwomen in the UK were given upthread. I /year over the last 8 years. Hardly the 'main cause' of death then.