Where do you stand on banning the sex trade?

[PinkyofPie]

I'm a radfem but I have done very little research into the banning of the sex trade and sex workers, but I know it's a bit of a hot topic at the moment, and the likes of the (vile) Paris Lees is a champion for sex workers.

I can't imagine why anyone would think protecting legal rights for the sex trade would be good for women. Can anyone enlighten me to their views?

Palmer Violet, I think you have misunderstood me.

I didn't say it was like any other job. I said that if someone was purely doing it for the money, and that made them coerced into it, then anyone doing any other job was also being coerced into that job. ie needing to do a job for money doesn't equal coercion!

For the record, I don't think it's like any job. I do however think that most sex workers have a choice whether to do this work or not. I have personal knowledge of this industry and have met a lot of women involved in sex work, from which I am drawing my conclusions.

I think its you that doesn't know what you're talking about. As evidenced by the fact that you really misunderstood my post and thought I was saying sex work was the same as other work when it's quite clear I never said anything of the sort.

maggie It was Derval and I me used the phrase "any other job".

However you are contradicting yourself. If the payment makes prostitution a legitimate way of earning a living then it must , presumably , be just like any other job.

The normal rules of health and safety, anti- discrimination rules and how to deal with non-payment should apply.

Oh, I missed your post suggesting prostitution is just the same as any other job which someone does but hates. That's what Palmer was responding to.

No one suggested that merely being paid to do a job equals coercion, don't be obtuse.

I think its you that doesn't know what you're talking about.

And on that score you would be woefully wrong. As you have been in all your ridiculous assumptions.

And while you didn't use the phrase "just like any other job" that was your clear implication in your post and you are well aware of it. Pretending wide eyed innocence about that isn't going to make people believe otherwise.

Of course, if you have the knowledge you claim you have, you will know that my summation of the effects of being prostituted is correct, which makes it strange that you failed to acknowledge that. Or not.

Maggie do you not see it as a problem that certain classes of people, especially the poorer, single parents, economically challenged, would feel more pressure to sell blood and organs etc (if legal) just to get by, whereas wealthier people wouldn't even entertain the idea unless it was a child or sibling that needed the donation.

That just doesn't sit right with me.

But you don't have a problem with society being divided in this way?

"Normal" jobs (like mine) don't involve fucking an endless stream of strangers. The comparison really doesn't work.

If it's just another job, then they need to comply with Health and Safety regulations:

www.hse.gov.uk/biosafety/blood-borne-viruses/safe-working-practices.htm

Here are some choice bits:

Protect the eyes and mouth by means of a visor or goggles/safety spectacles and a mask when splashing is a possibility

Avoid contamination of the person or clothing by use of waterproof/water resistant protective clothing, plastic apron, etc.

Wear rubber boots or plastic disposable overshoes when the floor or ground is likely to be contaminated.

Perhaps we are going about this all the wrong way - fully legalize and regulate the industry, complete with the H&S regulations required for anyone in intimate contact with client and their body fluids and the problem will solve itself (except for a very select few with unusual fetishes)

Perhaps we are going about this all the wrong way - fully legalize and regulate the industry, complete with the H&S regulations required for anyone in intimate contact with client and their body fluids and the problem will solve itself (except for a very select few with unusual fetishes)

The Green Party in Germany proposed similar regulations, and I thought "Well, that will NEVER be enforced, and if it was, they could just as well have banned the whole thing altogether") I think it was just about condoms and such, but even just that ... men don't go to prostituted women for gentle safe sex that causes no injuries, pregnancy or infection risk to the woman.

They go to prostituted women to do all the thinks they know no woman who has a choice will consent to.

With those bits you posted ... yeah, the only line of "sexwork" that would remain in business would be dominatrixes. I suppose the addition to goggles to the usual rubber outfit won't be too much of an inconvenience.

They go to prostituted women to do all the thinks they know no woman who has a choice will consent to.

I think the primary reason that men go to prostitutes is because they want to have sex. They like the clarity of the contract. There is no pretense that the relationship is anything more than purely sexual. There is no lie that there is anything more to the relationship.

Bumbledumb, if that were true, that would be seriously pathological behavior. But it's not true, what VestalVirgin said is true, men go to prostitutes to (ab)use prostitutes in ways less desperate women have the ability to refuse. Most punters have committed sex partners.

You speak as if men have sex with prostitutes as emotionless mechanics and with cold logic, an absurd stereotype of masculinity. Sex is emotion-full, don't be confused because the emotions men feel when using prostitutes are not "happy making love" ones but emotions of:

anger
disgust
shame
disdain
vengeance
possessiveness
control
frustration
superiority
resentment

Bumbledumb - I think I'd agree with you. I could see that being the case for a lot of men.

cadnowyllt, I'm sorry your experiences of sex with men have been such that you can believe many men engage in sex as piston-thrusting robots with no thoughts for the person attached to the hole they're penetrating.

This is rape culture.

Ok thanks

"But it's not true, what VestalVirgin said is true, men go to prostitutes to (ab)use prostitutes in ways less desperate women have the ability to refuse"

What a load of tosh. I am sure there are SOME men who act like this but not most. When I have been a single man I have used escorts and it was nothing to do with abusing anyone! It is simply like looking for a one night stand but instead of spending all night in a bar and then not knowing if you are going to take it any further, you know you have a guarantee of sex.

There's no lying, no making up names etc etc. It's just sex, like men and WOMEN often enjoy doing as a one night stand.

And shock horror there are thousands of escorts who do it for the money and because they enjoy it.

Rubbish123 how did you know that the escorts you were using did it because they enjoyed it and not because they were trafficked, forced by someone or simply incredibly desperate? Or did you not care?

Yes, Rubbish, women enjoy sex, but obviously women don't like you and/or having sex with you.

I hear your, "Sometimes I just want to shove my penis in some woman, any woman, no matter what she thinks" loud and clear.

t is simply like looking for a one night stand but instead of spending all night in a bar and then not knowing if you are going to take it any further, you know you have a guarantee of sex.

t is simply like looking for a one night stand but instead of having sex with someone who wants to have sex with you and having a mutually enjoyable experience, you know you have a guarantee of sex with someone who doesn't want to have sexual with you and you don't care that they aren't enjoying it.

Indeed.Flora

The point about one night stands surely is it's not just the ejaculation at the end. It's the getting ready to go out, meeting friends, social interaction, chatting up/ being chatted up, trying to entertain/ being entertained which might or might not end in sex. If it doesn't-so what?

If it's just ejaculation would it not be cheaper and less humiliating (in fact not at all humiliating) just to masturbate ?

Oh and Rubbish123 by "less humiliating" I don't mean for the women you pay but for you. Millions of of men are sufficiently attractive, physically and /or mentally to be of interest to a casual sexual partner, but dear me , you have to resort to paying. Is it halitosis or BO that's the problem ?

Sillage - I'm sorry for you too, mind - damn it gosh and jolly. Grinned a bit at your list, but really that sure is some mighty hot hate simmering you got there, Butty.

We've had reports about the OP of this thread deliberately mis-gendering Paris. We have edited this out of the OP now as we feel that there is a interesting discussion going on here and it would be a real shame to remove the whole thread.

Please avoid deliberately mis-gendering individuals.

Thanks

He used an escort service, not a prozzie, so obvs she was one of the "loves sex, may as well get paid for it" sex workers

YY Buffy. Outrageous gaslighting. It's so lovely that Paris feels so validated as a woman by street harassment. We other women should all be very grateful for it.