I'm giving up.

[GarlicShake]

This is more of a despairing rant than an invitation to reply. Sorry! I feel like I've nowhere else to put it.

I am 61 years old. I'm facing ageism & ableism as well as sexism. I have a corner to fight.

I went on strike for maternity rights, for equal pay, even for the factory to have a women's toilet. I forged a career in a world that was predominantly male, argued for my pay rises and trained younger people up to be non-sexist. I've been blamed and misconstrued, beaten up, raped, and carefully answered the gamut of sexist assumptions. I battled for my pension rights and I threatened the bank with legal action when they refused to take my salary into account on my first mortgage. I am still fighting.

But I just can't hack fighting for younger women any more. They're throwing away all that we, and the two generations before and the one after mine, won for them. I can't even tell whether they don't give a shit or they think all their rights are safe so they needn't bother.

I'm not going to argue the transgender thing any more. I'll stick to supporting the handful of FB friends who get it, but I'm not arguing in my own voice from now. I'm giving up on explaining why "Ms" matters - it's been around for 50 years, for crying out loud! People can figure out why the Nordic model's a better idea for themselves - or, most likely, not. Women can congratulate themselves on being financially dependent on husbands, and figure that out for themselves too.

And I think this country's going to vote itself out of Europe. That'll wake a few people up in short order, I fear, but I shall be needed to stick up for older & disabled people like me as our rights will get shredded. I am tired.

I am very tired and disappointed. Thank you for all the brilliant discussions, MN feminists! Good luck.

I'm 50 and I do get where you're coming from. In the 80s there seemed to be a lot more activism and women fighting for their rights. It seems to be going backwards now in a lot of respects sadly. The huge amount of horrific porn freely available, the focus on women's appearance, the fake boobs, plastic surgery, fake tan, eyelashes etc, women actively wanting to look like Barbie dolls, DV still being as prevalent as ever and the authorities still dismissing it ( and the cuts have made the situation worse both regarding refuges and legal aid), and for me the huge outpouring of misogyny on the internet that women seem powerless to be able to do anything about.

And so much more...

But I think we do have to still keep fighting and I think there are things to be positive about. MN for example is a HUGE force for good. Especially the Relstionships board where many many women have come to realise that actually they are in an abusive ( or just crap ) relationship and are supported to leave.

Everyday Sexism is another example of a space for women to have a voice and share what's happened to them and read about other women's experiences and realise they're not alone.

We've got a long way to go and our rights as women are constantly under threat but please do take heart that it's not all bad. X

Regarding younger women, I often think they're victims of what used to be called 'false consciousness', and the media certainly perpetrates this - the idea that women are only valued for their appearance. It's v hard to fight against and since young women are literally bombarded by this from every angle, is it any surprise a lot of them feel this way?

Honestly I think young women have (as a general rule - of course there are some fantastic feminist young women) been less inclined towards feminism as a movement. I remember saying some pretty stupid things about feminism at 19 or so (while of course taking for granted my right to a university education ). Lots of women come to feminism in their later 20s/30s/40s when they start realising that life for women is still often harder than life for men.

I absolutely agree with you garlic.

There seems to be a generation of young woman who are so open minded their brains have fallen out.

There's seemingly no critical thinking, no platforming, screams of bigot if you dare think against the status quo.

It's fucking scary actually.

Thank you for everything you've done Garlic. I owe you and women like you everything really. My whole life is build around the things you helped achieve

I'm 40
I don't pretend to know the academia of feminism

But I do feel we are going backwards in many ways. Some of it manifests in obsession with appearances, some of it in that I feel it's less acceptable to choose to stay childfree and single. Thanks to Garlic and women like you that I'm free to be who I am.

The non men thing is bugging me too. I've only had the loos and TERF chat with one person in real life. She's a feminist, in her words, but she's quite happy for someone with a working penis to be in women's loos, prisons etc. She said to me "it's discrimination that you're scared of someone with a penis". I don't know that scared is the right word though.

I think also many younger women do not understand how recently much of this stuff happened, that it was not long ago at all. It's likely many aren't aware that there were things like marriage bars in work (up till the 1970s), that women needed to get a man's signature to be able to have a mortgage or loan or overdraft. Some may not be aware that rape within marriage was only made illegal in England and Wales in the 1990s.

Unless you deliberately make an effort to find out about some of these things, no one is going to tell you - you have to be interested in reading about feminist history and feminist issues, and you're not likely to do that unless you're interested in feminism already, so it's a bit chicken and egg.

I haven't given up hope quite yet.

EBear, I don't know about that. I had hoped their parents would tell them. I fear they have the information but don't really think about what it means. Or worse, some would rather go back to the 50s model of things.

I am not sure they do have the information. I grew up knowing about the Suffragettes, Germaine Greer and a belief I could do whatever I wanted, but there was a lot more I didn't learn till I was doing a history degree, and in my own reading. I'm sure there are also some who would go back to the '50s without really thinking about what it means, but I think there are a lot of people who just don't know.

Thanks garlic I'm 30's so may be one of those young woman you refer to. Sorry. I'm waking up to the fact that I actually think things are worse for my daughters than they were for me. I'm genuinely shocked.

Queen "I had one early 20s work colleague tell me that all feminism has managed was to give women 2 jobs (paid and at home)."

Actually i knew someone who thought that, she was my age and desperately seeking a husband in order to get out of working, the fact that she was allowed to work and live independently actually seemed to piss her off.

I think we all at some point experience that rage and despair that things are going backwards and that younger women don't care but please don't give up - especially don't give up posting on here! Lots of people, women and men, young and old, are not well educated enough to think past the propaganda that we all face on a daily basis and feminism has always been vulnerable to that.

As well as all the benefits that feminism has given women, it has also improved the lives of many men. Wouldn't it be good if more men would acknowledge it? I'm thinking about how Patrick Stewart raised the profile of DV by talking about his mother.

Imagine a celebrity advert with lots of celebrities saying things like, "Thanks to feminism, my mum was able to support us when my dad left" or "Thanks to feminism, I've been able to take paternity leave" or "Thanks to feminism, I wasn't hopelessly inept in the kitchen after my wife died" or "Thanks to feminism, I've been able to share my passion for football with my daughter who now plays for England" or "Thanks to feminism, my sister has qualified as a doctor" ............. Maybe this wouldn't work, I'm kind of thinking aloud .....................

I remember reading recently that feminism was going to be taken out of politics either GCSE or A Level, can't remember which but it's like whitewashing our history. If girls aren't taught about this, it's like it never happened

Fucking disgraceful.

Who needs to know about the history of Kings and Queens?

Yawn.

Pink that's a brilliant idea! Wish MN would sponsor something like that.

Maybe we should ask them..?

Wasn't it only in the 60's that women couldn't get a mortgage on their own?

And rape within marriage was only criminalised in 91/92?

Bloody hell. I was toying with the idea of voting Green in the local elections. I shall toy no more.

Young women here might not know enough about history, but surely they can see the injustices and discrimination that's still all too prevalent in other countries?

Destinysdaughter, an older colleague of mine was refused a car loan in the early 80s without her husband's signature, even though she was working and he was an unemployed alcoholic.

I fully appreciate the battles fought and won by previous generations of feminists, but I think it is worth remembering how many battles there are still to go, and please don't give up on younger generations of feminism just because many don't want to fight - there's loads of us who do!

I agree, I definitely think there's been a resurgence of feminism amongst younger women especially since the 90s when 'Ladette' culture was all the rage and feminism almost seemed like a dirty word!

Please don't give up Garlic, at least not on her. Although I completely understand why you feel that way.

I am early 30s. I was raised by 2 non-feminists who were, luckily, both aware of the importance of education, so I was able to get a good education. But about things like women being responsible for their own rape because they had a drink or wore a short skirt, or not changing your name on marriage, I'm fighting against the tide.

Many women these days Don't Get It. But IME it's not just young women, although I can see why it feels that way, they are probably more vocal about it online.

I thank you for everything you have done for us. Some of us really do appreciate it.

Here*

Mid-50s here Garlic, on my gazillionth namechange on MN.
I agree with you completely. All that energy and effort and achievement being undervalued and smashed and thrown away by the very people who should be advancing the causes we fought for.

Bloody hell. I was toying with the idea of voting Green in the local elections. I shall toy no more.

I have voted for them in every election since I was able to vote (admittedly I wouldn't have in 2010/15 if I didn't live in such a safe seat). Never again.

I honestly can't believe that statement they have issued. Fuck them.

By the fucking way what about transmen? Fuck them apparently.

Twats.