The city that allows women to sell sex

[Mumom0]

I heard this story earlier, which is about a designated prostitution zone in Leeds - this scheme has moved prostitutes from residential streets to places where businesses operate in the day but not at night.

There was a short interview with a male business owner who felt there was an impact on his business, but what about women business owners or workers - current or future?
This place becomes effectively a no go area for women, or worse an area where sexual harassment is legalised as 'other' women should not be there.
Interested in what others think as I used to live in an area with a reputation for on street prostitution, and there was more harassment (to non sex industry women) from men driving through the area to have a look and shout abuse than actual prostitution.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35987536

Ophelia that's an interesting use of the word 'use'.

...Some use prostitutes...

I think someone somewhere else was questioning the word 'use' (but I could be wrong) can I ask if you see it as a use in specific sense, as in using someone for something rather than '...use the services of...' I'm not even sure if I know what I am asking but I was intrigued by your choice of the word!

(And thanks for agreeing with me!)

OPhilia it was maybe in this article.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-33113238

The writer says "They're using my body like a toilet."

I recognize it has already been said this article is not representative of the lives of any 'working girls' posting here at the moment.......

Literally... In the same way as people say:
"I can't cut my own hair so I use a hairdresser"
"I work a lot so I use a childminder"
"I use the local cabbie rather than drive myself"

A semantic analysis of the word "use" is interesting when applying it to people and does expose hierarchy. Prostitutes are used, and other people are also used for their services.

Yes, you are right, I guess it just struck me.

The word 'use' has both negative and positive connotations. This is where the term 'professional' may come in, that it is in that specific capacity someone was being used. But we do sometimes use the phrase in a negative way too.

I bet you have had many chats about this on mumsnet!

Uh ... I would never use the word "use" in this context. Partly because English isn't my native tongue, but also because ... it just sounds disrespectful, and I would not even have known it is grammatically correct.

"I can't cut my own hair so I go to a hairdresser/pay a hairdresser" sounds more like something I'd say.

Very revealing that this word combination seems to be normal, though.

This debate reminds me:

blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/

Twisty refers to the patriarchy as "laws governing the fair use of women".

Vestal me too. English is my native tongue. I go to my hairdresser; I employed nannies and now employ a cleaner. I might say I have a cleaner who comes once a week but I definitely don't use a cleaner.

I might say "use" if I was referring to say a particular firm of tradespeople which I use regularly and didn't know the specific person they would send.

It must be colloquial dialect then.

I wonder though, I suppose people say "I use nail clippers" or "He uses cannabis" would you say "I use porn"?

I guess more commonly the word "use" relates to inanimate objects which makes "using a prostitute" sound more like "using a blow up doll"

Vestal just clicked the link about the bear....

"The commercial features sexy lingerie models flopping in slow motion onto puffy beds with this giant fluffy bear. Their expressions are pornorgasmic with the same closed-eye ecstasy you see in commercials for love-replacement foods like chocolate and whipped cream. They are really getting off on mating with this bear. Possibly they sense that its emotions are more genuine and its conversation more scintillating than any dude who would think a huge stuffed animal is an appropriate gift for an adult woman."

Yes, Ophilia the word use seems to suggest an inanimate object, but I do think it's a correct use of the word in English to say of someone providing a service. It just struck me is all.....

Sorry Vestal it was another one you meant... the one that starts..

Please don’t rape, OK? Thanks awfully!
Rape Culture by Twisty
“At first I thought this was a parody.”
When these words appear in the comments section on some internet feminist post or other.....

It's just not all that black and white!
I'm from generation of "working girls" although my mum didn't follow that path and nor did I. However, for our relatives it was definitely a choice and they flitted between street work and escorting both without pimps.
My mum however, taught me that you must only have sex with someone you love and who you really believe loves you.
I'm still friends with my "first"
We moved in together during my final school year, in a bedsit in the red light district of southampton. There were 2 prostitutes living in other rooms in the same house, in 2 different situations.
One chose to do it freely, the other left home at 13 after being repeatedly raped by her step dad and bro and used it to support herself. What she actually wanted was to study art at college and then uni .. what she actually got was a cracking addiction.
I remember her telling me about her 2 weirdest customers. One who paid her £70 to lay in a bath fully clothed while he weed on her and the other who paid her £100 to sit at a bar all night while he talked about his wife... but then, you're laughing if that's as weird as it gets...
The two girls decided that they would have a party one night at invite all the "girls" round. About 20 girls turned up with at least half being from the year above me at school! Now my school was one of the top schools and certainly top when you discounted religious schools. It was in a very prosperous area with houses worth nearly twice as much as "normal" areas so these kids seemed to be making a choice to go into it too and the only ones who seemed to have issues were those with pimps or using pimp housing.
I used to get asked if I was working when I went to the shops etc but had no trouble as such even at night living there.
I don't think you can say a murder of a woman means the idea doesn't work...
Women are killed and raped daily but it just doesn't make the news because it's not a failure in a controlled area.
That "guy" wanted to kill someone, and that woman happened to be his choice that day.
We don't jack in programmes to help protect battered wives just because women are still being beaten, sometimes to death every week...
We don't give up on childline because children are still getting abused...

northernshepherdess Thanks for sharing but I am not sure what you mean when you say "It's just not all that black and white!"

Re "My mum however, taught me that you must only have sex with someone you love and who you really believe loves you."

I am so glad your mum got out and you were taught to share sex with someone you loved.

Re "One chose to do it freely"

Can I ask, do you know that for sure or was that what she said? Not being argumentative, just asking. If I had been coerced into prostitution I expect I would tell people I had chosen it freely. Just saying, no idea what the situation really is and you may well know for sure it was a free choice.

I am so sorry for the girl who wanted to go to art college and ended up with a crack addiction.

Re "but then, you're laughing if that's as weird as it gets... "

Maybe I am just an old cynic and not very fair but I do wonder if people will really always say exactly how it is, if Johns requested something really unpleasant and a working girl said yes, would she tell people, always, sorry I know that sounds cynical! Maybe a working girl could answer that for me?

Re "I don't think you can say a murder of a woman means the idea doesn't work..." What do you mean the idea of a 'safe' area?

Re "Women are killed and raped daily but it just doesn't make the news because it's not a failure in a controlled area." I know, it is utterly tragic.

Re "We don't jack in programmes to help protect battered wives just because women are still being beaten, sometimes to death every week... and We don't give up on childline because children are still getting abused..."

No we do not and we should not.

But are these really the same things?

Having childline doesn't contribute to the idea that it is OK to abuse children.

Having shelters doesn't contribute to the idea that women should be 'battered'.

I think (IMHO) prostitution contributes to the idea that women are commodities and that access to their bodies can be bought. And any weird thing that a man wants to do can be done to a woman for a price.And I bet it gets a lot weirder than peeing on them or talking about their wives. And that I feel feeds into the idea that women are fair game for men to do things to do without paying.

PS northernshepherdess I know you know a lot more about this topic so those questions were genuine questions.... for you or anyone else.

Most working girls are as frank as they come, except when it comes to discussing drugs or pimps. It's why I was able to talk to my mum so frankly as she had had a very... dunno if open is the right word.. but she'd seen a lot of things good and bad and nothing shocks her.
A girl from my school went into escorting. She was on benefits so didn't need the money, she wanted the lifestyle and she had the means to do it. She made a lot of money.
There are many weirdos out there for sure!

But what I mean by not as black and white... plenty of guys buying women, there's plenty just too shy to date, plenty who just want sex and aren't getting it at home (that Pisses me off) so it's not just those who buy women or those who don't, not just those who are forced and those who aren't, not just those in need of money and those who want money, it's a whole range of different people for different reasons.
My family members were certainly not forced into it, some just followed the old. Some saw it as a quick way to make money.