New anti-trans legislation in North Carolina

[SlowFJH]

Of course it's been driven by the religious right wing. But it does aim to achieve what many posters here appear to advocate - namely that biological males can only use men's toilets and changing rooms etc. Biological females must only use women's toilets and changing rooms. Will it gain wider support?

OP your bullish refusal to really listen to the very valid reasons women have for wanting single sex spaces, ( and your intense pompous questioning while ignoring questions posed to you), is only confirming why women need to be able to define their own safe spaces. You hoik yourself up onto your throne and dictate to us all that we are on the Wrong Side of History and expect women to all bow down and agree with you, but you haven't given any coherent points at all to your argument, other than that we must all be transphobic peddlars of hate if we disagree with you. I have never met a woman who really hates transwomen, in the way that some men hate homosexuals. Most women are pretty accepting of difference. There are however huge numbers of people of both sexes who do not accept that a fully intact man who happens to like wearing dresses is a woman just because he "feels" like one, and that he should therefore have access to women's private spaces. I do not want anyone with a penis in communal loos, changing rooms, wards, refuges, or safe-space waiting rooms with either me, or my young daughters, or my elderly mother. Other than a paramedic in an emergency, these spaces should be for women only. I have very valid reasons for that, and I am not alone .Your waffling on about hatred, without listening to the reality of womens lives would be depressing if it wasn't all so terribly familiar that I am inured to it.

Many links with evidence, facts, about crimes committed by 'men in dresses', still OP is in denial that this could happen. If everyone just wants to pee in peace, why so many crimes that prove otherwise?

And are you a man OP?

Ha! You CoteDAzur, PrettyBright, PosieReturningParker and now miarorao have beautifully illustrated anti-trans prejudices. Thank you.

So you have seen all those posts, but failed to spot any enquiring if you are a man? Impressive blind spot there, shows why there are some other holes in your reasoning.

This thread had become very uncomfortable reading. I believe transgenderism exists. I live in the ultimate back of beyond, to the extent that I have come across one transgender person in my life. Believe me where I live it would be easier to dress up in women's clothing as a fetish and hide it from the world and sneak around in your bedroom in your finery than tell the world here you are transgender yet this women became a woman in small town Ireland, had full sex change surgery and has lived life as a woman pre and post op for over 20 years. She can use whatever toilet and changing room and enter whatever space I am in with a completely deserved impunity. She has battled to be what I take for granted and I have even seen her in her stretchy tracksuit rather than some idealised view of what a women is just like the rest of us

That is not to say that I don't believe that many women who have experienced traumatic experiences at the hands of men need to shove over and make room for trans women. That is simply not appropriate. Trans women need save spaces and women need save spaces.

Another wonderful gem here from PrettyBright 27.3.16 at 23:42

"What man wouldn't put on a dress? All of the privilege of being part of the majority plus all the protection of being part of a minority

Yes. Yes indeed. As well as female toilets being full of make voyeurs, be prepared now for your fathers, brothers, sons, male colleagues, male neighbours and priests all to put on dresses and claim to be Trans women.

For gods sake prepare now! After all, what man wouldn't put on a dress?

This is going to happen because PrettyBright is jolly clever.

Ladies, allow me to explain why you're wrong

I'm 96% sure that Slow is a chatbot.

OP helping us to understand

Buttbot, more like

And unsurprisingly, you're still ignoring the dozen or so questions about whether you're male or female?

AlleyCat
I am grateful to you for having the courage to post here. I know the atmosphere will not have made it easy. I also respect and acknowledge that you will not agree with me. But I do agree with you and your balanced assessment.

Many links with evidence, facts, about crimes committed by 'men in dresses', still OP is in denial that this could happen.

Oh, it doesn't read to me like denial. It reads as a desperate attempt to shut up those of us who are raising it.

I can think of only one reason why a person would ignore evidence that their "proposal" will increase the risk to not only the group they are apparently championing, but to over 50% of the population as a whole.

Personal gain.

slow What is it that you will gain personally from the freedom for men to access to women's safe spaces.? What is it that takes precedence over concern for the safety of transwomen and women?

That is not to say that I don't believe that many women who have experienced traumatic experiences at the hands of men need to shove over and make room for trans women. That is simply not appropriate. Trans women need save spaces and women need save spaces.

AlleyCat
I am grateful to you for having the courage to post here. I know the atmosphere will not have made it easy. I also respect and acknowledge that you will not agree with me. But I do agree with you and your balanced assessment.

slow glad that you now see that women need safe places. I knew you'd come round eventually.

PrettyBright

The only personal gain will be that I and my children will live in a fairer and more tolerant society and accept trans gender people without the fear, hatred and bigotry that you spout.

As if you have children

Slow...each and every time you post you only further embarrass yourself. Your motives are anything but pure, and you sound spitefully gleeful when you think you've scored a point. You clearly think you're occupying some kind of moral high ground but youre really not.

I am also interested in why you refuse to answer the question as to whether you're a man - response?

Slow I definitely do not agree with the views you have espoused here but it reads to me like you have been backed into a corner and come out blindly fighting. I have a child with additional needs and I would fight to the end to get what he needs, to an irrational level I think in some ways you are doing the same from my reading. Your words read to me like someone punching so hard that you cannot take on board what people are trying to tell you. That others struggle too. That others have been marginalised too. That they have suffered at the hands of others.

Anyway as I said your protection and validation, as a trans person is important to me but it does not invalidate the experiences of others.

Best of luck. Maybe you are better off with folk in the real world than here where it is all very impersonal, nothing beats the personal touch to help people understand better.

AlleyCat
Thank you for your concern. I appreciate it.

AlleyCat
You sound like a bloody wonderful person and mother. I wish you, your child (and entire family) a long, blessed and happy life.

Anyway as I said your protection and validation, as a trans person is important to me but it does not invalidate the experiences of others

I don't think Slow is trans. I had assumed from other posts, without any particular evidence, that Slow is a woman. Slow's style of posting , particularly on the Breitling threads reminds me of Karen Straughan and her awful Honeybadger set.

However, as I said before I can't imagine any trans person thinking a transitioned person might choose the gender pronouns of the gender they had transitioned from (which Slow seemed to think was a possibility)

The only personal gain will be that I and my children will live in a fairer and more tolerant society and accept trans gender people without the fear, hatred and bigotry that you spout.

So you support changes that are proven to place your daughters at greater risk from male predators, and that place trans-women in greater danger, too - and you consider that to be a fair and tolerant society?

Your DDs won't fear trans-women; they will grow up fearing men. Men who it is proven take advantage of the freedoms you are fighting for.

I know you don't believe it. I know you think it's bigoted rhetoric that is exaggerated to perpetuate my own agenda. Sadly, your daughters will discover the truth.

I have a teenage daughter. She thinks as you do. I see myself at the same age in her. Before I was objectified. Before I was sexually assaulted. Before I looked into the eyes of a man as he assaulted me and chose not to challenge him, so as not to distress my then 2 year old daughter who was holding my hand at the time. I know it will happen to her, too. And I will fight as hard as I can to prevent society from making it easier for men to assault her, like men have done to me.

SlowJFH do you think transwomen should be allowed into women's refuges?

Zozzij
I have three wonderful children and they inspire me everyday. My teenage sons go to school with a boy who had the courage to come out as gay at the age of fourteen. This would never have happened in my day. Even more encouragingly, all of his friends rallied round him in a way that is a joy to behold. This is what I mean about being on the RIGHT side of history - the side of tolerance, dignity, acceptance and respect rather than fear, bigotry and prejudice.

Transgender people seem to me to be one of the last minorities in the western world that it is still okay to demonise and vilify.

I'll stand up for them even without ANY personal gain.