New anti-trans legislation in North Carolina

[SlowFJH]

Of course it's been driven by the religious right wing. But it does aim to achieve what many posters here appear to advocate - namely that biological males can only use men's toilets and changing rooms etc. Biological females must only use women's toilets and changing rooms. Will it gain wider support?

Slow are you not reading the thread? Because otherwise I assume you would know that midwives do all sorts of things around birth, change shift etc, and are not always the ones who deliver your baby. (I had a male midwife for a while with DD1. He didn't deliver my baby, he looked after me later that day, I was given my own room and one-on-one care after a very traumatic c-section and blood transfusion). A midwife may or may not be the person helping at the point of the actual delivery.

Just so you don't end up waiting unnecessarily, OP, I'm not engaging with you any longer on this thread.

"Can we please establish the veracity of your claim?"

How exactly do you propose to... um... establish the veracity of her words? (No less)

What do you know about pregnancy and birth, Slow? And since (as I asked and you avoided) you are male and have zero experience in these matters, how exactly do you think you are going to determine whether or not whatever Suburban might say here is fact or fantasy?

No Crappymummy I will not give it up. These are details that SuburbanRhonda chose to share and then pestered me repeatedly to comment on them now.

What we have established so far is that in the mid 1990's the NHS employed "some bloke wearing a wig and mascara" purporting to be a midwife but not actually delivering babies.

My whole aim here is to separate verifiable facts from fear mongering. I am entitled to check the facts as SuburbanRhonda has encouraged me to do (several times)

You are not "checking facts". You can't, since the subject matter is one you are woefully ignorant in.

What you are doing is embarrassing yourself.

In my own experience: I had the same community midwife through both my pregnancies

Her name was Anne

Anne did not deliver my babies, that is not at all unusual

this example is provided for the benefit of those who, though they know fuck all about pregnancy, labour and birth, how it is experienced and what happens when these intersect with the nhs but, despite this ignorance, would prate on regardless

Hth

PrettyBright (27.3.16 at 18:22), you're going to have to do better than that.

Earlier today (27.3.16 at 17:43), you said, and I quote, ^^

Why don't you answer my question, Slow?

Are you male?

My whole aim is fact checking, just like yours. We wouldn't want to be fuzzy about the facts, would we?

Sorry posted too soon

I can't think of anyone less qualified to talk about what does or doesn't happen re midwife care than some over invested, point scoring dudebro

I am sure if we look, there must be someone still yet more unsuitable: perhaps is there an elderly anchorite monk, or failing that, an electric can opener who might be persuaded to opine? I am sure their perspectives on this issue would be most enlightening, and would allow Slowfjh precious time to regroup their thoughts

PrettyBright
You said (27.3.16 at 17:43)..."Current legislation proposed in the UK would result in parents overheard discussing that being arrested for hate crime

That is a pretty bold fear mongering exaggeration of the proposal.

Show me the specific wording that would lead to a parent saying e.g "One of the midwives at our local hospital is actually a bloke in a wig wearing mascara" would lead to that parent being arrested for hate crime.

This is just fear mongering and you know it.

Toilets are separated in primary schools, both by sex for the children and separate facilities for adults on the premises. Again, I'm assuming to provide additional protection for the children.primary schools, both by sex for the children

Yes, and there are separate toilets in offices too. My point is that toilets aren't always segregated to prevent crime. I don't think there has to be a danger of crime for toilets to be segregated, but I do think that we need to be clear about why segregation is desirable.

NOT ALL MIDWIVES ON DUTY DELIVER THE BABIES.
Hth.

Sorry slow, you've lost me.

Do better then what? A link to the recommendations that propose a change to the Equalities Act in order to include biological men who decide they are women as having "protected characteristics"?

The recommendations mean that a male-looking trans-woman working on an obstetrics ward would be protected by law from gossip and discussion by local parenting groups, articles in the local media and other "singling out" due to their appearance or trans-status.

Show me the specific wording that would lead to a parent saying e.g "One of the midwives at our local hospital is actually a bloke in a wig wearing mascara" would lead to that parent being arrested for hate crime.

If a parent said "one of the midwives at the local hospital is a faggot who likes it up the arse " or "one of the midwives at our local hospital must be a terrorist because he's Muslim", that parent would have committed a hate crime of harassment and could be arrested and charged.

Your example is no different - if the law is changed, referring to a transwomen as a "bloke in a wig wearing mascara" will be as legally unacceptable as referring to a gay man as a fag, a Muslim as a terrorist or a disabled person as a cripple.

(Apologies to anyone who may be offended by my language, used yo make a point, please don't delete me HQ!)

Section 26.1 of the Equalities Act 2010
(1)
A person (A) harasses another (B) if—
(a)
A engages in unwanted conduct related to a relevant protected characteristic, and
(b)
the conduct has the purpose or effect of—
(i)
violating B's dignity, or
(ii)
creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment for B.

So the midwife was purporting to be a midwife

The plot is thickening...thinking about it there were all sorts of unsavoury characters at the birth of my children (and at the conception) could have been anyone

This is very telling from SuburbanRhonda (27.3.16 at 21:35).."Just so you don't end up waiting unnecessarily, OP, I'm not engaging with you any longer on this thread"

Let's be clear. SuburbanRhonda chose to share rather a lot of personal information relating to the birth of her daughter in 1995. She then pestered me repeatedly to comment on these claims. Now I have done she's flouneed. We are left with the tantalisingly brief snippet of a midwife who was a bloke in a wig wearing mascara but not actually delivering babies somewhere in the UK in 1995.

Just imagine if the current legislation was to protect say (purely for illustration) Jews. How would you react If someone came on here to say "I had a Jew deal with me once... I didn't mind it but...."

Would readers not be permitted to establish the facts of what that Jew had / had not done.

For the record, I will say now, if there are ANY verifiable facts to support the claim of the1995 midwife bloke wearing a wig and mascara. .I will eat my hat.

re: the continued insistence on identifying and corroborating detaills,

is it permissible to out people in this way?

it continues to be laughable that a poster cannot conceive of someone who is working as a midwife, who was encountered in that capacity, yet did not deliver a baby

birth is remarkably unlike what you may recall from episodes of holby city

Why do you think it's not possible for there to have been a trans midwife in 1995?

There is nothing inconsistent in what Suburban has said. You think there is, because you have ZERO understanding of the sort of checks, appointments, and procedures that take place during pregnancy and birth, many of which midwives perform and which don't involve the actual birth itself.

And when are you going to answer my question Slow? Are you male?

I hope you didn't think only you can pester people "fact check"

I don't believe you are an actual poster, Slowfjh- I think you may be an electric can opener

Could you please provide specific corroborating details to confirm one way or another

I must warn you I will reject anything you do provide, but provide you must

PrettyBright you claimed that simply saying something like "Our local NHS trust has a trans woman midwife" would be classed (as you have suggested) an arrestable hate crime.

You know that's total and utter bullshit.

I would go further to say that you are deliberately inflating fears.

Are You Male?

FFS, it's not a difficult question

Do you not know the answer?

No, I didn't slow.

I said that the situation you described

I'm sure a trans gender midwife would have caused more than a hint of interest from parents and press alike.

Would result in hate crimes being committed under the proposed legislation.