New anti-trans legislation in North Carolina

[SlowFJH]

Of course it's been driven by the religious right wing. But it does aim to achieve what many posters here appear to advocate - namely that biological males can only use men's toilets and changing rooms etc. Biological females must only use women's toilets and changing rooms. Will it gain wider support?

Show me the text that would corroborate that fear mongering claim.

www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201516/cmselect/cmwomeq/390/390.pdf

Recommendations by Maria Miller that the equalities act is amended to change the way in which the protected characteristic of 'transgender' is defined.

It is, of course, already a hate crime to harass someone on the basis of their protected characteristic. An Asian or gay who was being talked about in parenting groups or on social media because of their ethnicity or sexuality would be protected by the Equalities Act. If Maria Miller gets her way, men who retain their male biological and social characteristics but identify as women would be equally protected.

I am guessing Slow has never given birth to a baby since s/he doesn't seem to have much idea of how this stuff works. Fwiw I probably had half a dozen midwives involved when dd was born, but a registrar delivered her in the end. Nowhere did Suburbanrhoda imply her baby was delivered by a transwoman midwife.

I thought Slow was a man, so no, obviously he hasn't given birth. Have I missed something?

I wouldn't want to misgender you, OP. Are you male or female?

Looking forward to the apology as i see that slow has quite a way with words

I am a bit angry at the repeated harrassment of rhonda,

And while i think about, i persoanlly have no problem with a male dr giving me an intimate examination. I personally don't have a problem with a trans person either, i do have a problem if a patient is not told that they are trans and are not allowed to complain about it

I thought toilets were segregated because, for space saving reasons, public toilets are divided by partitions, not walls and men's toilets contain urinals so women and men want separate spaces.

Generally, people don't like to share intimate things like going to the loo or getting changed with people of the opposite sex.

I accept that it may help with crime prevention but I don't think that semi private spaces like offices and primary schools have separate toilets to prevent crime.

But I think you either have segregated toilets or you don't. There is no point in having segregated toilets and then allowing people to use either.

Well, given the example of the Canadian university that recently switched to gender neutral facilities and had to switch back because there were numerous incidents of voyeurism via filming with mobile phones, I think crime can be an issue even in semi private spaces. Perhaps not primary schools, granted.

Do you count delivery of a baby as an intimate exam anyway? All my births have been pretty hands off with maybe one or two dilation checks but the actual delivery I don't think the mws touched me. Maybe that's unusual.

I had 6 sweeps over the course of a very, very overdue fortnight with DS1 and dilation checks during a long, induced labour. By the time I had him, it felt like half the midwives in the district had had their hand up my fanny.

Merrymouse - Toilets are separated in primary schools, both by sex for the children and separate facilities for adults on the premises. Again, I'm assuming to provide additional protection for the children.

Most of us won't want single sex toilets. In fact my local tube station has a much much apprecitaed women only waiting room. It's really lovely and I have turfed many man out of there over the years whilst politely pointing him to the mixed one next door. And yes I appreciate it's unfair on men not having one which is male only but given the huge advantages men have all over the place it is the least London underground can offer us.

Gender segregation at Tehran air port on a busniess trip was fascinating. A male queue to be screened was very long indeed but we women were whisked through in the women's only queue very quickly - that was rather nice but I don't think we need that a UK airports.

As for intimate examinations when giving birth we are subjected to all sorts by countless health professionals when giving birth and I am sure all trans women thank their mothers every day for enduring what women have to endure to give birth as without that they would not be here.

Section 22 of the Gender Recognition Act (2004) makes it a crime for an employer to disclose a trans employee's status without their express permission.

So while you might be able to ask for a HCP who was not trans, the hospital couldn't really grant your request, or even discuss it, because to do so would disclose the trans person's status.

This applies to trans people with a GRC. If Maria Miller's recommendations are made law, anyone will be able to get a GRC by simply filling in a declaration.

On the subjects of toilets alone, i really wouldnt mind the individual, opening onto a public area, unisex toilets, like you find in costa for example. Let the men get used to waiting in line. Serve them right for trying to fill up already busy womens loos with all the men they apparently try to attack for wearing a dress.

Eustace - Sorry I'm a bit confused. You said you are trans, then talked about tampons which made me think you are a transman. Now you say you are talking about "us women". Does that mean you believe that transmen are women? Apologies if I have misunderstood any of it.

Where did I say I was trans? If I implied that that is not so.
I said as a child I enjoyed tree climbing and was a tom boy and that I have always thought men have a much easier deal in life and it's a pity I'm not a man. I have never felt trans. I would love passports not to name gender and most official forms for feminist reasons.

As for who is what I leave that to the law - as I'm a lawyer. It tends to be the easier way to deal with things.

..and at 54 I would love to be free of periods. No one ever told me I would not have hit the menopause by now. The cost, the blood, the mess... when does it ever end?

Eustace2016 Sat 26-Mar-16 10:32:58
Islam is sexist to the core and does women no good at all. That statement is easily proven. As for trans people there are not many about. Many of us just about never use public toilets and are sensible not to get sent to prison. I don't even go into shops much these days and 100% buy clothes on line so all these issues like toilets seem totally irrelevant.

... to which slug replied:

slugseatlettuce Sat 26-Mar-16 10:52:59
Eustace didn't realise you were trans. Thanks for the comments.

... which you didn't correct.

Anyway, it seems I have misunderstood. Sorry about that.

I see - that was very bad English of mine. I am not surprised you assumed I was trans.

" As for trans people there are not many about. Many of us just about never use public toilets and are sensible not to get sent to prison." I didn;t mean the us to mean trans but of course it looks like that.

I certainly feel sympathy for all people who feel different and I hope like most people in the UK we all treat others with respect. I read about trans people right back in the 70s when I was a teenager - I remember borrowing from the library autobiographies of I think people like April Ashley and Jan Morris the travel writer. It always fascinated me as a feminist as to what defines us as male and female. I just about never meet anyone trans so am surprised it gets so much space on here but I am all for debating interesting subjects and avoiding duller stuff like what type of nappy cream to use.

eustace

Could you try a progesterone-only pill like Cerelle? For some women, me included, it stops periods completely. It's changed my life.

I think the reason there are so many trans threads on Mumsnet is because it's one of the few places where women can still talk about their concerns around, for example, proposed changes in legislation, without being shut down and called a terf or a bigot.

God yes, I hate periods too, although I hear menopause is no fun, either.

Ah this womanhood of ours is just full of privilege

Apparently if you're on the POP, you may go through the menopause without even noticing. Here's hoping

SuburbanRhonda
You chose to reveal some details about the person (bloke wearing a wig and mascara) that attended (?) the birth of your daughter. You admonished me several times (see for example your comments today 27.3.16 at 11:26) for not responding quickly enough to the details you had chosen to share publicly..

Can we please establish the veracity of your claim?

Your words (26.3.16 at 23:05) were "I had a trans woman midwife when I gave birth to my daughter in 1995"

You have since implied that this person (bloke wearing a wig and mascara) did not actually deliver your daughter.

What did this "bloke" (your word) do?

Give it up, FFS.

Suburban isn't obliged to educate you in what midwives do for pregnant women during the course of their pregnancies.

Indeed. Google could help.

Ffs, I had about 5 different midwives while in labour then a load of other medical types to do the delivery.
Between changing shifts and medical intervention you dont end up with the same person there the whole time.