New anti-trans legislation in North Carolina

[SlowFJH]

Of course it's been driven by the religious right wing. But it does aim to achieve what many posters here appear to advocate - namely that biological males can only use men's toilets and changing rooms etc. Biological females must only use women's toilets and changing rooms. Will it gain wider support?

*SuburbanRhonda has shared quite a lot of details about the incident but crucially none that could have protected fellow women who might have felt violated by this "bloke in a wig wearing mascara".

Ok, leaving aside the question "WTAF are you on about, OP?" that is buzzing around my brain, at what point did I say anyone needed protecting from a trans woman midwife? You asked if anyone had experience of being treated by a trans HCP and I told you I had. You didn't ask if anyone had ever felt they needed protecting from a trans HCP did you? Because if you had, I wouldn't have shared my experience because it doesn't fit your scenario.

One of biggest fear mongering tactics espoused by the anti trans lobby is the risk of being intimately examined by a man posing as a woman. SuburbanRhonda has shared evidence that this has actually happened to her.

That is a big fat lie OP. I posted nothing of the sort.

Thank you for being honest slow

Your admission that your views and values about this are based on your uninformed opinion is refreshing

anti Trans lobby

Here I was thinking I was a woman, who knew I was part of something quite so grand as a lobby

Does that make you part of the opportunistic misogyny lobby?

"could have protected fellow women who might have felt violated by this "bloke in a wig wearing mascara""

How would you suggest she does that?

Many fellow women (like me) don't have a problem with male gynaecologists. The ones who do would no doubt recognise that this particular one was a 'bloke in a wig wearing mascara' just as instantly as Suburban did. At that point they can ask to have a female gynaecologist or obstetrician instead.

Does that make you part of the opportunistic misogyny lobby?

Others have SuburbanRhonda.
The risk of having gynaecological examinations from trans women would be viewed by many here as a violation. I have shared that the NHS has guidelines and procedures to ensure that the patients wishes are respected. I understand that you had no problems with this person serving as your midwife but (as you can see from this thread) many other women would not have been as relaxed as you.

After the event, why did you choose not to protect other women?

I am genuinely curious as to which NHS trust might have been so willing to go out on a limb and hire a trans woman (or your words - bloke wearing a wig and mascara). Male midwives are very rare. Transgender midwives are going to be even rarer. I am just curious as to why this HCP did not get more publicity locally. When we had our three children we got to know most of the midwives at our hospital over the course of six years (the trainees, the more experienced ones). I'm sure a trans gender midwife would have caused more than a hint of interest from parents and press alike.

I'm sure a trans gender midwife would have caused more than a hint of interest from parents and press alike.

Current legislation being proposed in the UK would result in parents overheard discussing that being arrested for hate crime.

It comes down to the question of why any kind of segregation is needed.

There is sometimes a logical reason to provide separate services for women on the grounds of sex. I have never come across a logical reason to segregate people on the basis of their masculinity it femininity, and if there were I'm not sure what would it have to do with biological sex.

I think we have to ask whether toilets need to be segregated, and if so why? There are plenty of big strong aggressive women, and many women naturally have a lot of body hair, but that doesn't make them men.

Yours is hypocritical

Yup-seconding Matilda

Your mistake is a mistake that only a person who has no knowledge or interest in the trans community would make.

is it gross when a person who is contemptuous of women's fears repeatedly harasses a poster about 'why didn't you choose to protect women' in order to score Internet points

because I think it might be gross

Lol Slowfjh what do YOU do to protect and support all women (apart from yelling at them on the Internet)

What do you get out of coming on here and telling us we are bigots if we don't happily welcome males into female-only spaces?

How will your life be impacted if males can go into female-only spaces?

What is it that is currently missing from your life because males can't go into female-only spaces?

The problem with the TW midwife would only come if a patient had requested no male Drs or HC personnel.
If the woman in labour said that they didnt want the TW as a midwife, because they are a man, what would happen?
Would the TW respect her wishes or say that they were a woman so it didn't apply to them?
That's the problem.

After the event, why did you choose not to protect other women?

Before I even attempt to make sense of this question, never mind answer it, please be good enough to acknowledge and apologise for the lie in your post of 17:09 in which you say I posted that I had been intimately examined by a trans woman HCP.

PrettyBright
"Current legislation being proposed in the UK would result in parents overheard discussing that being arrested for hate crime"

That's bullshit and you know it.

Show me the text that would corroborate that fear mongering claim.

The NHS goes out of its way to protect the wishes of patients - even if they are racist.

And anyway, your spurious depiction of the legislation is not enacted today and certainly wasn't in 1995.

From my memory talk of the midwives, their manner, years of experience etc etc was an active topic of conversation among all parents for weeks and weeks leading up to the birth. Nothing wrong with that. I am just curious as to why this person who was so obviously "a bloke in wig and mascara" hadn't been mentioned - at least to give patents the chance to make an informed choice.

Parents

I think we have to ask whether toilets need to be segregated, and if so why?

Crime prevention.

Toilets and changing facilities cannot be monitored via CCTV.
Therefore, they are unmonitored spaces.

The lack of monitoring makes these spaces more attractive to criminals as they pose less risk of detection.

In order to offset that increased risk, spaces are segregated, in order to provide indirect crime prevention. People who are seeking to commit crime in those spaces are easier to identify by legitimate users of the space.

Think of it as a form of 'neighbourhood watch' for areas and spaces that cannot be monitored in other ways.

Male looking people have no legitimate reason for being in the space, so awaremess of those who use the space is heightened and crime less likely to happen as a result.

It's not difficult. It's a crime prevention principle that is applied internationally in all sorts of scenarios for years.

If the NHS goes out of its way to protect patients why was my friend who was sectioned put in a ward with a transwoman patient with no lockable doors to sleeping area, showers or loos, and her concerns dismissed by staff when she pointed out it was contrary to single sex accommodation policy?

SuburbanRhonda
Sorry my asumption that this person had actually delivered your daughter. Was that not the case?

You can knock yourself out with your curiosity OP but you still need to apologise for lying about what I posted.

I didn't say anything about who delivered my daughter.

I am another woman wondering quite what investment you have Slow, in all of this? Do you really not have any idea at all why women might not want fully intact men in the spaces where they feel vulnerable and want privacy? Do you have daughters? Because my DH is really unhappy at the thought of our dds , when they are in their teens and thus out without me, having to share traditionally female spaces with adult men. I'm another woman (Like most ) who can list at length the violence and sexual harrassment I've experienced from men, and I want to feel i can undress in a space that is only for women and girls. I also have a vulnerable elderly mother. She would not ever use a public loo or changing room if it was somewhere that men could also freely use without challenge. Not everyone in society is a 20 year old student who has been lucky enough not to yet be on the receiving end of sexual violence. There are valid reasons why some spaces are sex segregated. As so many others have pointed out to you, If transwomen feel at risk from men by using men's loos then it is men who need to be dealt with, not women who need to give up spaces where they feel safe.
Your arrogance is fairly horrifying to me- call me a bigot if you like, I've spent my life supporting equal rights and gay marriage etc, but this is a sex not sexuality issue. Women are at risk from men, all the time, as you clearly cannot grasp at all. Grow up and think about the reality of women's lives.

SuburbanRhonda
Just reread your post where you first mentioned this midwife who was "a bloke wearing a wig and mascara". You said (at 23:05 on 26.3.16) "I had a trans woman midwife when I gave birth to my daughter to my daughter in 1995"

I assumed from this that this particular midwife actually delivered your daughter.

Was this not the case?

As I said, OP, I posted nothing about who delivered my daughter.

Still no apology for lying about what I posted?