New anti-trans legislation in North Carolina

[SlowFJH]

Of course it's been driven by the religious right wing. But it does aim to achieve what many posters here appear to advocate - namely that biological males can only use men's toilets and changing rooms etc. Biological females must only use women's toilets and changing rooms. Will it gain wider support?

yeah! When you were in the throes of labour, what exactly were you doing to verify your midwife was a transwoman!

slow, imagine a time when you are feeling really sad about sex segregated toilets- labour and birth hurts even more than that (imagine!)

she might have been distracted, and then after, there was that whole having a baby and recovering from birth thing

clon

Thanks for taking the time to post. Your post makes it so clear that the opposition to the transactivist agenda is NOT rooted in bigotry, it's rooted in a simple respect for women's lived experiences that is not shared by the vocal transactivists who dismiss and seek to invalidate women's voices on this issue.

Your very understandable and very valid feelings MATTER, and your fears about males having access to women's safe spaces are entirely rational and are shared by many, many women who have had experiences like yours, and also those who haven't but who know that male violence against women and girls is no strawman, it is real.

"There have however been thousands of violent attacks on trans women when they have forced to use male only spaces "

OK, so obviously, Slow your number one priority thing today is to get yourself busy activating out there to convince males they shouldn't be attacking trans women in male-only spaces. That would be bigoted, vile, transphobic, etc, if anything was.

Right?

Clonakilty

it has been asked already, but worth raising again:

if transwomen are in jeopardy in a men's toilet, why would transman not be?

Sorry you went through that clon, and are still living with the consequences of it.

1 in 4 women are raped or sexually assaulted by men. Lots of us have very good reason to fear having them in our private spaces where we are vulnerable.

I am so sick of "progressive" lefty-boys telling us it doesn't matter if we're raped / assaulted because we can always take rapists to court.

So that's all right then.

""There have however been thousands of violent attacks on trans women when they have forced to use male only spaces"

Source?

Clonakilty, I'm so sorry.

Your feelings matter. They are important.

OP, I don't want you to say anything about the fact that I was treated by a trans woman midwife. You asked, repeatedly, whether anyone had had experience of a trans HCP, I posted my experience and you ignored that, until now. I just expected you to have the courtesy to acknowledge that someone had responded to your query.

As I stated clearly in my post, I didn't care that she was trans so it was not necessary to contact whichever healthcare trust was running the hospital 21 years ago nor a newspaper.

And how did I know she was a bloke? Well, of course I could have m a d e a m i s t a k e, but actually I just used my powers of observation and some common sense.

Clonakilty

Another article which might help. This one's written by a man, in case there was anyone here who had a hard time listening to women, whistles innocently, not looking at anyone in particular.

The premise is that women can give up every last one of our segretated spaces and it won't stop violence against trans people. Jonah writes very well.

So what is the bridging premise of the trans argument here? As far as I can tell, the only normative statement that would bring "Women’s spaces should be opened to transwomen" out of "Men are violent to transwomen"… would be this: "Women ought to respond to male violence by surrendering their spaces", which is of course a more specific rephrasing of the normative statement "Male violence ought to decide how women act" – which is, if you remember from above, a position that most if not all feminists oppose.

If there’s a first lesson in feminist solidarity, it would be that you don’t get to make demands on women and then justify them by referencing the perverse and vile behavior of your own class. But in practice, a huge number of trans activists are doing exactly that. The step from "Men are being violent to you, so give up your freedoms" to "Men are being violent to us, so give up your spaces" is a change in variables, not in essential structure. Both cases rest on the assumption that the correct response to oppression is the capitulation of the oppressed, the belief that what women ought to do is determined by the level of abuse men will sink to

clonakilty

Lass
What would satisfy me is an explanation why....

I made a mistake. Have you ever made a mistake? Evidently you have. Reread your post from 13:11. You also referred to Alex as "he".

"You were told Alex was a trans woman but still decided he was a man"

SuburbanRhonda
So the only "evidence" we have of a "bloke in a wig wearing mascara" but trying to pass as a female midwife is your memory from 21 years ago.

You did nothing to protect your fellow women from this person.

Why not?

all this person cares about is scoring internet points with their rhetoric, because whatever happens will never impact them negatively in any way

it is not the responsibility of of a person in a position of vulnerability to prevent any sort of abuses. It is revolting to suggest that it is, and certainly indicates a very selective sense of empathy

Rhonda may not have had any problem having a transgendered midwife, some women would feel violated

if you had any empathy for women at all, any appreciation that we are human, you would understand just how vulnerable women are when pregnant, or giving birth

Slowfjh, what exactly are you doing, as a person with a significant amount of privilege in our society, doing to make ALL women safe?

apart from yelling at us on the Internet of course

No Slow that doesn't wash at all. My mistake is quite clearly a typo, particularly in the context of your deciding Alex was a man.

Your "mistake" was , despite being told Alex was a trans woman, to refer to her as if she were a man.

Why would you do that? Why would you then pretend there might be trans woman who might be happy to be called "he"?

Could it be you are doing exactly what you criticised Posie for- looking at a person and deciding that person is a man? Seems very odd.

this person has disbelieved people's posts, demanded evidence, then ignored or dismissed it when it was provided, then tried to shift the onus for preventing assaults onto people most vulnerable to them

it it walks like a misogynist, talks like a misogynist...

never mind, at least Slowfjh won't have to worry about being on the wrong side of history, woman-hating will likely never go out of fashion

Crappymummy
One of biggest fear mongering tactics espoused by the anti trans lobby is the risk of being intimately examined by a man posing as a woman. SuburbanRhonda has shared evidence that this has actually happened to her. While she herself decided (at the time) that she had no problem with this - clearly it is a problem now (for many on this thread).

SuburbanRhonda has shared quite a lot of details about the incident but crucially none that could have protected fellow women who might have felt violated by this "bloke in a wig wearing mascara".

Why choose not to protect fellow women?

slow despite my diligently following your directions and putting question marks in my post of 11:06 this morning, you haven't answered my questions about the increased risk to women and transwomen by legitimising sexual predators access to female spaces.

Why not?

Lass
"My mistake was quite clearly a typo"

I concede that your mistake is permissable. My mistake is unforgivable.

PrettyBrightFireflies
Yes. Yes. No. No.

Trans women are not my 'fellow women'.

They are men.

You're right Matilda.