New anti-trans legislation in North Carolina

[SlowFJH]

Of course it's been driven by the religious right wing. But it does aim to achieve what many posters here appear to advocate - namely that biological males can only use men's toilets and changing rooms etc. Biological females must only use women's toilets and changing rooms. Will it gain wider support?

"If you claim to know for sure that a person would commit murder (lynching) or voyeurism.. then yes that's bigotry. "

Nobody is doing that, though. We are not talking about banning a particular transwomen from women's spaces, while welcoming the others in with open arms.

And do please try going into a Muslim women's private space as a male in a dress before you confuse what I have said with bigotry.

"CoteDAzure has said that the Muslims she knows personally and is related to would commit murder"

I haven't said that (obviously) and it's CoteDAzur.

After Ad Hominem comes Straw Man. You really are going through the list of logical fallacies, aren't you

I'm glad to see you backtracking from your original assertion "they would be lynched" and later trying to justify this assertion by saying that it was based on your first hand knowledge of living in an Islamic country and having Muslim friends and family.

Now you're saying (rather conveniently) oh no - not the Muslims I know..

Christ slow

Would you stop misrepresenting other posters, .all of us on this thread can read, we can see what cote has written and the earlier reference to Alex Drummond

I dont get people who misrepresent to that extent

I was desperate to say "lie"

But i didnt...go me!!!

Oops

I'm not going to rise to your posts, Slow

FYI I am not backtracking. If you have trouble understanding my posts, read them again.

Except you can't because you got them deleted. Ah well.

Anyway, I don't think you answered my earlier question:

What did you hope to achieve when you started this thread?

I'm wondering because I don't think you managed it, whatever it was, since it ended up with you calling people names and saying we are all bigots.

Contextomy in action

Deletions are really useful for that kind of straw man argument - its another tactic. This really is a classic.

Not that it matters one jot, but I had a trans woman midwife when I gave birth to my daughter in 1995. No one told me she was a trans woman, but it was obvious. She was a bloke in a wig wearing mascara. I actually thought it was pretty cool, until I asked her for some help when I was struggling to establish breastfeeding and she couldn't have been less helpful.

I didn't get your original post deleted CoteDAzur. In fact I wish it had been left and I said so later on . Another poster pointed out that it had already been taken down.

I think it revealed your true colours.

I think it might be time to stop giving Slow oxygen. I'm out of here

Yeah whatever. Are you going to answer my question at some point?

(For the 3rd time...)

What did you hope to achieve when you started this thread?

I'm wondering because I don't think you managed it, whatever it was, since it ended up with you calling people names and saying we are all bigots.

CoteDAzur
"What did you hope to achieve when you started this thread"

To highlight the absurdity and bigotry of the NC bill. I find it amazing that so many people on MN are on the same side as the pompous right wing Gov McCrory. Apple, Biogen, RedHat and other major employers in the state have come out against it.

I guess not.

Good night Hermione.

"I find it amazing that so many people on MN are on the same side as the pompous right wing Gov McCrory"

So? Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

But my question was: What did you hope to achieve by starting this thread? Surely you knew that most MNers are firmly against transwomen being allowed into women's spaces. Were you hoping to make us see the error of our ways? If so, you are not really doing a good job, I have to say.

Are you going to answer Slug's question?

Or is your answer still "use the law"?

If so, can you answer mine?

The one that was framed:

"Any man can declare himself to be a woman under Maria Miller's proposals. It doesn't matter what he feels like, whether he feels like a woman or not - even if he doesn't, who is to know? He can just say he does and that's it, he's a woman.

You don't see any dangers for women with this?

Or you see the dangers, but you don't give a shit about them?"

Off to bed now, hoping to get up in the morning and find an answer.

I am confused...there are supposedly so many trans people out there that every women only loo in the land should be altered to please them, and yet barely any of them would ever work in the NHS? Um..
Also what's with the strange grandiose pomposity OP? The leaving posts for people "to read in years to come" the "wrong side of history".. Like a third rate candidate at the hustings in a PG Wodehouse.

Like a third rate candidate at the hustings in a PG Wodehouse.

Spot on SirVix

AskBasil
Yes use the law.That's what we do in a civilised society. And in most liberal, progressive societies, we do not condemn people for what they might do before they have done whatever you believe they would do.

Your logic of "increasing the danger" fans the flames of fear.

This is a different situation but it reminds me of the time that two students were removed from some flight (even after they had been through security) simply because of their brown skin and some passenger perceiving their appearance and presence as a threat. By this logic - because some acts of terror are committed by brown skinned pepole, all brown skinned people (including e.g. Jains - probably the most peace-loving people on Earth) should be treated the same way - because it makes someone else feel safer.

Yes SirVix you are very confused.

When have I said every women's loo should be altered? Now who's misrepresentating?

I've said all along that this is a tiny tiny section of society that already suffers some of the greatest oppression and vilification. AskBasil and others have implied that the NHS must be full of them. I beg to differ.

The "side of history" is a genuine belief. I think this will make for interesting reading in years to come. If boards like this had existed before slavery was abolished, women got the vote, black people could sit where ever they wanted on a bus/ drink from the same water fountains and use the same restrooms as white people, homosexuality was legalised, gay people could marry - I am sure that there would have been equally vocal expressions of fear about the dangers and risks of such a change.

The Trans Rights movement is the first major civil rights movement of the digital era. It's fascinating to see it unfold.

My bet is that in 5, 10, 15 years or less from now people will look back on some of the comments here and say (as they do now with gay marriage) and say "It wasn't such a big deal after all"

The reason why I believe that is because of the younger generation coming through. I have high hopes for their values of tolerance and acceptance.

slow still not answering questions..

Ask me one and I'll do my best