New anti-trans legislation in North Carolina

[SlowFJH]

Of course it's been driven by the religious right wing. But it does aim to achieve what many posters here appear to advocate - namely that biological males can only use men's toilets and changing rooms etc. Biological females must only use women's toilets and changing rooms. Will it gain wider support?

Posted without comment...

So you bang on about no-one having had the experience of a trans health care professional then when someone posts about one, you have no comment to make?

Likewise

And in most liberal, progressive societies, we do not condemn people for what they might do before they have done whatever you believe they would do.

That's not true though, is it?

Because all travelers are subject to airport security before flying.
And everyone who applies for a job with children is subject to safer recruitment practice.

And, until now, all men have been excluded from female safe spaces.

Slow is typical of "liberal" men who love to criticise women for intolerance over trans issues. He's not capable of articulating any rational basis for his position other than name calling and declarations of belief. But he still feels entitled to spout his criticism on women.

"Your logic of "increasing the danger" fans the flames of fear." Otherwise expressed as "silly women, being afraid that men will do what they have always done and use any loophole they can, to victimise you. Lucky we men are around to splain to you why your fears are unfounded, even though we sexually assault a quarter of you and then tell you you're lying about it."

“AskBasil and others have implied that the NHS must be full of them”. You're a liar. No I haven't, I specifically mentioned the figure of 1. Hardly "full of them". Liar.

"My bet is that in 5, 10, 15 years or less from now people will look back on some of the comments here and say (as they do now with gay marriage) and say "It wasn't such a big deal after all"

Possibly. Because women being threatened, attacked, assaulted and intimidated by men in public places, is no big deal and never has been. In 15 years, we may still not have got to a situation, where the ongoing victimisation of women by men, has begun to be considered a big deal.

Slow, you're hilarious!
" a tiny tiny section of society that already suffers some of the greatest oppression and vilification".

Like Caitlyn Jenner. Or Martine Rothblatt. Or the Wachowskis. Or Kelli Maloney. Oppressed all their lives, yo. The agony.

And they're happy to tell the world they are the most oppressed minority of all, while happily shitting all over women, gays, lesbians, and the kind of trans people who actually ARE being murdered, that is to say young black trans people of colour working in prostitution. Murdered as a result of male violence.

Yet here you are on the internet scolding feminists. Go you.

*gah, got carried away, should read "young trans people of colour".

slow. You said One of my good friends is an doctor of Indian origin. It is very rare nowadays (more common in the past) but there are occasions when a patient requests to be treated by a doctor of their own race. The NHS has guidelines for this and my friend is amazingly sanguine that some patients might make a request that some might find to be bigoted

I also know of a case a few years ago where a woman in labour declined the services of a black female midwife in the nhs hospital as this woman said she would not be cared for by a black person. The ward sister swapped midwives around to accomOdate this woman's request. The midwife then successfully sued her employer for racial discrimination.

I don't know of any trans HCP but taking into account the above situation it's not beyond the realms of possibility that a trans HCP may sue a hospital if a patient asked not to be cared for by that person and the hospital acted on their wishes.

When the age of consent for homosexual sex was brought in line with hetero sex, the main argument used by the religious right was the protection of children from paedophiles. If we'd had boards like this back then I am sure the anti equality sentiment would have been equally vehement. They claimed it was all about protecting children (a noble and worthy cause). Years later, most young people can't believe there was such opposition to the equalisation to consent laws - all basesd on the fear of what some people might do. Of that danger is real but the progressive law did not presage millions of predatory pederasts as some homophobes claimed it would.

So yes there is danger of some predatory / voyeuristic males but I don't see why thiere numbers will suddenly increase.

Really?

You don't think that if the legal definition of a woman, is anyone who says they are a woman, predatory men won't take advantage of that?

Even though there is already evidence that that is exactly what they are doing in places where self-identification is the only criteria for being considered the opposite sex to your biological one?

Have you thought about why you're so invested in denying the bleedin' obvious?

WhotheF
Yes I think that could happen. But as your story shows the needs (?) of the racist patient were accommodated. Of course, the black HCP also has rights as an employee.

Thankfully such cases are very very rare. My friend is amazingly calm when it happens and puts it down to old age. He would never dream of suing the trust because he knows the trust is not racist. In fact most of his younger white colleagues are far more outraged by such (thankfully rare) occurrence than he does.

So yes there is danger of some predatory / voyeuristic males but I don't see why thiere numbers will suddenly increase

No experience in criminal profiling, then?
Perhaps you should do some research and cone back to us on that one.

Interesting, OP, how you go on and on for post after post about no-one having the experience of a trans HCP, then when I post about one, you ignore it.

Just like you ignored it when someone posted about a trans woman suing a rape crisis centre (or rather "conceded" that it has happened, rather than admitting you were wrong) and ignored the fact that you misgendered a famous trans woman.

As the children in the primary school I work in would say - if you can't take it, don't dish it out.

AskBasil
Yes. Really.

I don't have a crystal ball but I do not believe that female toilets will suddenly have dozens of men in them simply claiming to be women. I think this is an exaggerated fear. I think the vast, overwhelming majority of people want to use bathrooms simply to pee, poo, wash their hands etc. I think the vast overwhelming majority of people want to do this as quickly as possible, with the least hassle to themselves or anyone else.

I don't believe things will be as bad as you think they will be.

FYI there has never been a single recorded instance of a trans person committing a sex offence in a public toilet in the US. There have however been thousands of violent attacks on trans women when they have forced to use male only spaces (in line with Gov McCrory"s law).

"it reminds me of the time that two students were removed from some flight (even after they had been through security) simply because of their brown skin and some passenger perceiving their appearance and presence as a threat."

How funny. Except of course planes aren't segregated according to race, whereas toilets, dressing rooms etc are segregated according to sex.

So "brown-skinned people" have every right to be on that plane but males don't have the right to be in female spaces, regardless of their feelz about their bodies.

"I do not believe that female toilets will suddenly have dozens of men in them simply claiming to be women."

How about one? Can you guarantee that there won't even be one?

Because one is already too much.

"Have you thought about why you're so invested in denying the bleedin' obvious?"

I'm curious about this, too.

What do you stand to gain if all males are to enter freely into female spaces, Slow?

"all basesd on the fear of what some people might do"

Yes, that is the basis of locks, gates, alarms, prisons, and indeed the entire criminal justice system.

Would you rather we stop planning for what some people might do?

So .... no instances of transwomen sexually attacking women in toilets. Plenty of examples of men, occasionally dressed as women but mainly dressed as men, sexually attacking women in toilets. Plenty of examples of men sexually attacking transwomen in toilets. But you want transmen to be forced into this environment? Nasty

You know, more than ever, i am genuinely more in favour of individual lockable unisex toilet cubicles that open directly onto public space (like portaloos). I never liked sending my boys into the mens toilets either.

and ignored the fact that you misgendered a famous trans woman

Slow are you going to explain and apologise for this?

I apologise unreservedly if my calling Alex "he" caused offence.

if it caused offence?

It was not a passive action of something causing offence by itself.

You caused offence - you need to apologise for what you did.

You're all right, it didn't cause me any offence at all.

You called him he because he is a man and you know it.