New anti-trans legislation in North Carolina

[SlowFJH]

Of course it's been driven by the religious right wing. But it does aim to achieve what many posters here appear to advocate - namely that biological males can only use men's toilets and changing rooms etc. Biological females must only use women's toilets and changing rooms. Will it gain wider support?

Just to be crystal clear before, I asked MrsTerryPratchett to give specific evidence of a time when someone (in her words) "with a full beard and penis" had attempted to conduct a smear test on her against her wishes.

If you cannot corroborate your accusation against the (likely) innocent and unconnected picture you have posted, I say you are deliberately and maliciously inciting hatred and lies via social media.

Oh, which of my posts are getting close to libel, Slow? Feel free to report them to MNHQ. Please.

And of course I claimed nothing of the sort, as well you know. I was merely illustrating how transwomen with beards don't belong in women only spaces. But that doesn't fit with your agenda.

Your incredible twisting of what people say would be hilarious if it weren't so dangerous. I have not accused anyone of anything, to be perfectly clear.

Your bullying tactics are not going unnoticed.

The specific lie I challenged was about such a person conducting a gynaecological examination against a woman's wishes.

This has NEVER happened and you know it.

If such a downright lie had ever been told about a black person, Jewish person, gay person or disabled person - you would have the police knocking on your door.

Shame on you for inciting hatred.

Shame on you for using the picture of a completely innocent person to further your agenda of inflating fear and hatred.

Get a new hobby

And of course, I never accused anyone of anything, or incited any hatred. But don't let reality get in the way of a good MRA rant.

This is exactly what I mean about being on the wrong side of history. You promulgate the worst fears, using pictures of people you don't like the look of, to convince others that the dangers are far more grave than they imagine.

Sounds like a very familiar technique to me.

Yes, yes, I have a massive agenda of fear and hatred. I'm a massive fear mongering hate beast.

And I won't be engaging with you any more.

Shadows
"I'm a massive fear mongering hate beast

Yes. Yes that's exactly what you are.

Oh dear. An MRA dislikes me .

Bombardier
"So you want unisex everything"

Show me, using my own words (directly quoted) - not your own prejudiced, bigoted and hateful interpretation - where I ever said "unisex everything".

I thought you said you wouldn't be engaging with me anymore. Can't make your mind up?

I am not and never have been an MRA. But why does it not surprise me that you also resort to name calling and labelling as well as stoking up and exaggerating fears. We know EXACTLY whose play book all these techniques come from.

Shame on you.

Well actually, I wasn't engaging with you. I was talking about you.

But you've aroused my interest now. Do tell, exactly who's playbook do my 'techniques' come from?

This legislation does allow for single occupancy facilities to be set up, which are very useful for many trans people. It doesn't actually force any facilities provider to entirely segregate by biological sex. They could provide all single occupancy facilities or a mixture of single sex facilities and other facilities.

Its so strange. Like all your arguments point to unisex. I have already quoted 3 paragraphs of very touching prose you wrote earlier. You remember ... the dangers of segregation. The liberal move to inclusion. Its like the black civil rights movement - men and women forced to live segregated lives. You worry that soon we will be like an islamic state if we continue down this line. We cant dismiss all men as potential rapists as that is prejudice and bigotry. I mean, surely, after those deeply thought provoking comments you cant be arguing for anything but the end os segregation. I admire you. Like i said. But i just dont feel most of society, bigoted and prejudiced as it no doubt is,,is ready for it

But wait, you say you are not in favour of unisex? You do want segregation? Or are we to live lives of splendid isolation? So confused ....

I'm just so disappointed slow. Have the courage of your convictions.

The specific lie I challenged was about such a person conducting a gynaecological examination against a woman's wishes.

This has NEVER happened and you know it.

The point has been made esewhere on MN that if the self-identification legislation currently before parliament is passed, the 'female' nurse doing your smear or the 'female' nurse chaperoning a male doctor for an intimate examination could be just like the beardy Transwoman pictured upthread (i.e. A man) and short of refusing consent to be examined by that individual (and forgoing necessary medical treatment or screening) we wouldn't have a right to object because, by law, the TW nurse is now 'female'. This is one example, but there are plenty of other walks of life where the self-identification agenda craps all over women's rights and choices.

I don't Think anyone has ever told me "shame on you" so many times.

Who the fuck do you think you are to tell women how to feel?

I don't have a problem with male doctors giving me smear tests but we certainly need to treat both sides of this with sensitivity. Loads of us women have been beaten, slapped and abused by men (many more than vice versa) and not surprisingly we want our privacy sometimes from men I personally have no difficulty at home in changing a tampax with my teenage boys around - the more they learn about menstrual blood etc the better and if they don't like it try being a woman for a time - it's not a bed of roses by any means but things like your let down reflex working when expressing milk at work and stuff like that you probably do want privacy away from men. Most people can work around these issues with compassion and discsusion.

I always wanted to be a boy as a child - I was a feminist and still am and a tom boy as they called us in those days but not in the trans sense. I still think men get a better deal. Also I feel our passports and titles should not have to disclose our gender at all. I am all for us being ungendered as it were as along as we don't get trans women taking female quotas on boards - no evidence of that at all so far. When women own 99% not 1% of the world's wealth then I might give way on that point.

This tells you who that TW who's picture was posted above (Alex Drummond) is. It's not a joke, it's not something TERFy wimmin have made up, it's real and it's happening.

HCPs should have high standards of ethics, this shouldn't happen - although the problem as always is that it will possibly be hard for women to express their desire for a female HCP once a non-female is in the room for fear of embarrassing them/making a fuss with the result that women may stop going for this healthcare.

Then of course there are the unethical HCPs - of which there are few, but as in any profession, definitely exist.

By the way, I've had plenty of gynaecological stuff done by HCPs against my wishes - I've had two difficult labours/births - people have been given permission to do an exam, and taken the opportunity to perform sweeps I've specifically told them not to, they've bullied me into having drips, and they've mislead me about procedures - and that's ethical ones. Women's boundaries are overstepped all the time already.

And in all of this, you seem to be deliberately missing that it's not the trans people we're saying are the problem here, we're not saying the trans people are the men who will film us under the door, we're saying it's the men that will have the green light to go into the women's toilets if anyone can go into them who says they are trans.

I once inadvertently walked into a mans toilet; there were two cubicles and the urinals were not visible. A man came out of the cubicle and I looked surprised as did he. He informed me I 'was in the wrong place'. I made my apologies and left.