How are we supposed to do ALL of this?

[cakestop2016]

Modern society is completely screwed up for modern women as far as I'm concerned. Why are we expected to go to work AND juggle all of the housework AND take care of the children's needs? Why haven't men caught up in assisting us? My DP is slowly learning that he needs to do more but why am I having to write him to-do lists, why can't he think for himself? Why does he fail to notice the greasy finger marks on the kitchen cupboards when he 'cleans' the kitchen?
why is it like this? Why does all the meal planning get left to me? I'm now seriously contemplating leaving DP and taking our DD with me because I can not live like this anymore.
what's the answer for modern women?

Lass, you never wash woollies or delicates? Never bedding during norovirus?

You can do cleaning to a random standard or you can actually clean to get rid of limescale or grease. Or to disinfect. You won't spray window cleaners on wood, surely

New delicates go to the dry cleaners until their novelty wears off then stick them in the delicates cycle. Which you don't even need to read the instruction manual to work out.

Never had to deal with norovirus (had to Google it) So far as everything else I only clean when I don't have a cleaner- it's all basically stuff you spray on things apart from the stuff you pour down the loo. Sorry I remain completely unconvinced about cleaning being a skill.

Lass, how do you know your delicates are supposed to go on the delicates cycle?
You know because someone showed you or you've learnt by experience. Same for me with hanging a picture. It's natural to me because I've seen it done enough and have done it enough.
My point is that the level of skill is the same. Not that cleaning or washing is a particularly difficult skill. But comparable if you have been taught the basics. The problem is that many girls are taught about washing but not fixing nails whereas more boys are taught about nails and not so much about washing.

Besides, we've seen enough threads here on cleaning to be clear that it's not necessarily a case of just wiping and pouring something down the toilet.

When I was the stay at home parent I found that the more effective I was in the role of keeping house and child caring the more my wife felt 'disengaged' from the home and from being a mother. She would ask me to lift my game in ways so odd that, in the end, I was triple folding towels and ironing and folding underwear, things she has never done herself.

So, I stepped back, I became the level of incompetent she apparently needed me to be, obviously not in terms of caring for our kids, but for other stuff, yea. I intentionally destroyed one of our older saucepans and pretended it was an accident. Even today, over ten years later, she still talks about it happily.

dont blame "all men" -- just sort it out with yours.

DadWasHere
so, it's not a myth that men pretend to be more incompetent than they really are?

Besides, we've seen enough threads here on cleaning to be clear that it's not necessarily a case of just wiping and pouring something down the toilet

So? If individuals want to make a rod for their own backs that's up to them.

I'm not sure what point you are making beyond some women seem to make an enormous fuss about how difficult housework is ; spend their time doing it to levels of enormous fuss because only they are capable of doing it to that standard and then complain about how they have to do this.

My point is that the level of skill [for DIY and housework] is the same. Not that cleaning or washing is a particularly difficult skill.

As pointed out earlier. You could read my posts, as I don't think I need to repeat most of what I said earlier.

You work things out according to fairness and there's no rules it seems to me. If you both work the same hours, then it's only fair the work gets shared.

I was a SAHM for 5/6 years. I took acre of DD and did all the housework. Ex worked long hours, the DIY and even built an extension to the house. I could have insisted he did the laundry and the ironing washing up when he got home at 8pm most nights, but I always worried he'd expect me to help him at the wekend.

Jeezus, why are these housework threads so misogynistic? There is some serious woman-hatred and victim-blaming going on here. I totally fail to see why we so readily recognise emotional abuse, financial abuse, physical abuse, but do not see women's labour as part of all these things. We don't blame low-paid zero-hour contract workers for "choosing" to work those shit jobs, but we blame women for "choosing" to do shit jobs in the house. We don't blame domestic violence victims for failing to see the escalation of abuse and recognise it as such, but we blame the women for not recognising the inequality that usually is not evident at the start of a relationship but develops over time. We do not blame the low-paid workers for not being able to pull their socks up and sort out capitalism, but yet we blame the women for not being able to defeat patriarchy single-handedly within their nuclear family. We don't buy the "not all men" bullshit when we talk about rape culture, but we are soooo happy to run back to "not my Nigel" attitude when we talk about inequality of labour in the home.

I get the feeling that some people here derive some king of personal psychological satisfaction from their evident ability to select a perfect husband, just like new parents of babies who sleep through the night can feel so smug about their parenting skills. The result is nothing but a put-down of other women.

Quite a rant Autumn!!! Perhaps we don't all have your 'I'm a victim' agenda?

I'm totally with you Autumn. When DH started slipping I hauled him up on it. If he wants a healthy and happy marriage he needs to put work into our relationship and that includes doing housework so we can have a nice home to raise our family in. What's really nice is when other men comment on DH being lazy around the house. I've actually had a couple of dads tell me to put my feet up, they are making me a drink as I look tired. Nothing sinister in it. Just how men tend to treat women here with a little bit more respect compared to the UK.

I've had the benefit of living abroad here in the US, just outside of NYC where plenty of women stay home as well as an good number who hold down extremely demanding careers. I've found the attitude in the UK suffocating from all the negativity when it comes to how women treat each other.

Well said Autumn, I feel exactly the same as you.

Olivia. Victim agenda? Does that include sexism, domestic violence, sexual abuse, emotional abuse etc.,?

ER no, it includes housework..wtf are you bringing in violence and emotional abuse for????

Domestic duties ought to be shared, but of course it depends on the particular couple's situation and there's a lot of variation. That said, yes, very sorry but all the men I've known are pretty shit at it. II wouldn't let a man near my ironing. Putting up shelves, drilling holes, fixing the car and all that is much more his line. Sorry if that offends.

Thanks, Matilda and Elendon. I have a serious goblin-size axe to grind when it comes to "choice".

Olivia, I am sorry, but I really cannot understand what your agenda is.

I've put up shelves, mowed the lawn, drilled holes and fixed my car. To me it's no different to cleaning down the work tops with a clean cloth, and ensuring the toilets are clean as well.

What is it about the cleaning of human excrement in the home is a woman's job, but most engineering jobs connected to it is a 'Man's job'?

Surely if a man can master putting up shelves, he can master ironing. And vice-versa for women.
The difference tends to be different expectations and training.

FFS we are only talking about the cleaning

I knew this would turn into a bigger issue which is why I pointed it out in one of my other posts.

My dh isn't perfect, we split up for 8 months a few years ago.
But what he isn't is sexest. Plenty of other shit to deal with though.

It's just I valued and prioritised the domestic side of things. If someone expected me to pick up their dirty socks, always washed up, had to think for them re keeping things tidy or clean. Then that was my line. Because my theory was that if that's how the view domestic work re men and women then their views and attitudes on other sexest stuff would probably be in there somewhere too.

I was pro-active in making sure I dumbed or didn't give anyone a chance if they showed those signs. No one else could do that for me.

I express sadness that 2016, lots of women are not also pro-active in that respect. Then later come on MN and act as martas.

I think passiveaggressivequeen is right, and maybe every teenage girl should be given the book she linked to or a similar book. So women wake up and stop sleepwalking.

We are not talking about the manipulation that goes on in abusive marriages.

Just learning to have a line in the sand that says I won't except that sexest behaviour.

ILeaveTheRoomForTwoMinutes, how about giving the book to teenage boys? Or is the issue not relevant to them?

Yes. Plus the everyday activities regarding socialising your child, meeting other parents and making contact with them takes up time! Precious time.

AutumnMadness yes absolutely, give it to boys as well, the aware people are, that this behaviour is sexest, and if you behaviour like it you are sexest twat the better.

MatildaBeetham yes sorry you are right, I'd forgotten what the OP was. But the principal is still the same.