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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Can we have a sensible discussion about Cologne.

208 replies

HelenaDove · 07/03/2016 00:18

I feel very uneasy about the way the discussions on the news board are going.

Can we have a discussion on the events of Cologne that isnt racist or sexist (meaning no sexism towards British OR refugee women) I find it very hard to believe that a feminist would refer to young women as girlies or talk about them as if their pregnancies were immaculate conceptions. Yet i have seen someone refer to young British women in this way as well as ask why some of the refugee women are pregnant.

Some of the comments ive seen are making me very uneasy and i hope i am articulating this in the right way that it is intended.

OP posts:
Original poster
HelenaDove · 07/03/2016 16:35

"With a smattering of tropes about young mothers. How Thatcher. How delightful.

Yet another thread to hide"

Exactly Palmer Because apparently its ok and relevant to these threads to bring these tropes up but its not relevant to object to them.

OP posts:
sportinguista · 07/03/2016 17:16

Not sure how we get to young mothers in all this. I'm beginning to think I need to check if I left the top off the spray mount since it's all getting very weird.

AgainstTheGlock · 07/03/2016 17:34

I've seen thatcher blamed for some things in my time - but the digital rape of women in cologne? That's a new one.

Shutthatdoor · 07/03/2016 17:42

I agree Glock

Original poster
HelenaDove · 07/03/2016 18:05

Nice bit of gaslighting glock. Thats not what Palmer or i said at all.

Palmer and i were pointing out the tropes about young mums that Britt was coming out with.

Because those harmful classist tropes were part of the problem in Rotherham.

Women and girls lower down the socio economic scale and/or in care were seen as somehow lesser......and not only by their abusers!

OP posts:
AgainstTheGlock · 07/03/2016 18:17

But what has any of your post of 18:05 got to do with your thread title?? Confused

I've asked you several times now in this thread to "speak your piece" about Cologne without referencing the sex, legal status or religious beliefs of the criminals involved in the attacks...

and you're still off on a tangent about socio-economic scales, teen mothers and Thatcher. I have no fucking clue what's going on. Is Trump involved? The late Nancy Reagan?

mycatsloveeachother · 07/03/2016 18:21

I'm also confused, and would welcome clarification.

AgainstTheGlock · 07/03/2016 18:22

And going back to the first couple of posts on this thread (which were never expanded upon) - I genuinely want to know if my hypothesis is a big steaming pile. See I'm thinking along the lines of "importation of rape culture" with reference to Cologne, but if that is all wrong - then please, tell me how - because I genuinely cannot fathom any other explanation right now.

Original poster
HelenaDove · 07/03/2016 18:27

Im not the one who brought up young mums. Im the one who objected to the way they are being talked about.

OP posts:
VertigoNun · 07/03/2016 18:42

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting

AgainstTheGlock · 07/03/2016 18:57

This thread makes absolutely no sense. Your title says "let's have a sensible discussion about cologne", then in your opening post you start talking about pregnancies - and now you're accusing me of gas-lighting?

Stranger than a strange bear.

kesstrel · 07/03/2016 19:02

Helena I've messaged you.

sportinguista · 07/03/2016 19:10

Yes I'm getting lost too. It seems to not really chime with the whole sensible discussion as it totally takes the focus off what happened at Cologne and puts it onto another issue. If we are worried about very young motherhood we need to start a separate thread and discuss that. Socio economic factors may have something to do with Rotherham but we're not discussing that or that's what the thread title implies. Having seen interviews with the victims of Cologne, none of them looked to fit that model.

So when is the discussion re-starting?

WeMustSurelyBeLearning · 07/03/2016 22:19

"Can we have a discussion on the events of Cologne that isnt racist or sexist "

What does this mean? Is it racist to acknowledge that the cologne attackers were by and large from one particular culture/region? I'm not sure if there is a way to discuss it and face up to the issue without mentioning that.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 07/03/2016 22:26

So no we can't it seems have any kind of discussion that isn't framed as brown men bad, white women good

I think this is a despicable thing to say and suggests that you are trying to minimise what happened in Cologne and all over Europe. You are trying to alter what happened to whom and by whom

I agree Britt how that remark was meant to be conducive of a sensible discussion is not clear.
.

sportinguista · 08/03/2016 09:30

Sensible discussions usually rely on a discussion of the facts in their entirety. Not sure how we can do that without mentioning certain facts in this case. Not doing so makes it in fact meaningless and lacking in context.

If we're going to do that we might as well not bother at all.

RufusTheReindeer · 08/03/2016 09:52

Some people assualted some other people in a big square in a certain place

discuss...

Easy

Dont know what you are worrying about sporting

Quaintessential · 08/03/2016 09:57

Is it just me or does OP not seem at all interested in having a sensible discussion about Cologne? The whole thread seems to be a thinly veiled disguise to have a go at certain posters.

sportinguista · 08/03/2016 10:55

My first question would be: "Why?"

My second is: "Can I have more details?"

See it gets more complicated by the second...

ISaySteadyOn · 08/03/2016 11:33

I have been doing a lot of thinking about this as an immigrant myself. Cologne, I think, might open up opportunities to discuss our own laws around harassment and assault. After all, didn't the attacks highlight that, under German law, they didn't really count as a sexual assault?

I also recall a very long thread on here about minor sexual assaults that posters had experienced here which makes me wonder are we less misogynistic or are we just better at hiding it?

I suppose what it comes down to for me is that I think we need to show that we are ahead in women's rights by our actions and the application of the law. If we can show that, then we have a much stronger leg to stamp out greater misogyny wherever it comes from and that would be good for everyone.

I really hope no one feels attacked by my post as that is not my intention. I am only saying what I think and no one has to agree with me. I feel the disclaimer is needed as these threads can get heated.

Anyway, Helena, that's the best I can do at a sensible post.

Mide7 · 08/03/2016 11:49

Good post Isay

Quaintessential · 08/03/2016 11:57

I said as much on the Cologne threads ISay , there have actually been thousands of 'sensible' posts on those threads but unfortunately some posters seem intent on picking apart the words of a few.

ILeaveTheRoomForTwoMinutes · 08/03/2016 12:16

Isay absolutely.

I read a link yesterday about a sexual assault in Torquay. Although it should not of happened, I was glad that the person had been found and arrested, and his plea of ignorance was dismissed.

He only got community service, but I would hope that the fact he was caught, and prosecuted. Will hopefully make him and any like minded, to think twice before acting on their "impulses"

sportinguista · 08/03/2016 12:54

I think there does need to be a rethink on what constitutes harassement and we may need to come down on things harder to get the message home to some of the male population. Perhaps on this day of all others we need to think about the rights we have and going forward into the future making things better and not worse.

Moreshabbythanchic · 08/03/2016 14:16

Again women are being told to change their ways. Where is it all going to end?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3481882/Women-warned-not-night-Swedish-town-multiple-sex-attacks-foreigners.html