And so it begins: Transwoman is running for women's officer of NUS

[PosieReturningParker]

Some of her aims:

Gender neutral sex ed
Women in leadership making room for transwomen (because you know how many women are in leadership roles)
BUS accepting transwomen to compete as women in sports

"I think many women instinctively and unquestioningly support TW because we are conditioned to care - we think how hard must it be to be trapped in the wrong body to the extent that you would mutilate that body to try and find relief. Because that is the line that is spun and for a vanishingly small percentage of TW there may be truth in it. But most are autogynephilic entitled men who get off on dressing and (supposedly) passing as a woman and never intend to have their cock cut off."

Don't know. Maybe women are flattered that some men think being a women is so great that they are prepared to go to such lengths to be considered as one. Maybe thy just feel sorry for them or think it's funny or sweet.

I would have previously and have stood up for trans folk, might have said and jumped through all the hoops they want us to, to show how they are validated as real women. I'm very live and let live and hadn't really looked into it or thought about it - was very uneducated, basically. I even remember having a debate (argument) with someone who was going off that their daughter had a transgirl a school and they didn't agree with the concessions being made. I thought they were really ignorant and bigoted (they had been a nasty bully at school which might have made me more argumentative).

I'm still not sure what I completely think or believe, I've just become more aware recently and the whole self identification thing, CJ and the IOC guidelines has made me look at the issue in a totally (flabbergasted) different way.

I've been lurking and reading and nodding my head, and wishing I were as articulate as many of you here.

"At the moment they have the upper hand, because they know that accusing a person of being prejudiced is a very effective way of closing down discussion"

Yes to this ^ I think that is the reason nothing is being done. Fear of being labeled prejudiced.

Trans activists cannot pretend anymore that the only people who have problems with their beliefs and goals (such as intact men should share locker rooms with women and girls) are "terfs" and bigots. No, I'm pretty sure the majority out there have a problem with these ideas, as long as they get enough information about it.

You're not serious? I am Cait is a programme?? shock Wow.

Give it time and it'll no doubt be a political movement.

The more airtime transactivists get, the more people will realise how bad this is for women and how MTTs continually push women's boundaries to achieve validation.

I can't get my head around describing themselves as queer lesbian trans
So wants to have sex with a woman, would that be PIV?
What we used to call heterosexual sex?

You are not allowed to ask about genitals. Stop reducing people to their genitals
People ARE whatever they say they are

Is this the fault of fairytale s, do you think?? Should we stop reading fiction to our children do you think? Least the boundary between reality and fantasy become too blurred. I must admit, watching 24 did have that effect on me for a while. Really hard to establish, every morning whether I was a spy or on maternity leave with a baby to look after

When I was 16 (so we're talking 25 15 years ago now) I knew a bloke who was in the process of transitioning to a woman. They were lovely and a friend but even then I remember thinking "well that's all well and dandy but you don't bleed, don't have PMT, aren't scared of pregnancy and haven't lived a life being raised a girl". Clearly I was an early rad fem.

But then of course I got older and realised my younger self had been a terrible bigot and if someone sees themselves as a woman then they probably are. But then I didn't think about it at all much if I am honest. Inasmuch as I did, I assumed all transgender people wanted reassignment surgery.

What I think makes me uneasy about expressing concern about the erosion of women's rights in favour or transgender rights is that it can appear that I am sharing views with the religious right, or indeed any of those that go against my strictly libertarian ideals.

But then I'm not sure why I should care so much.

(Care so much about appearing to align with people I cannot stomach)

I will write to my MP using some points from this thread. The news item about the rape of a female student in the toilets and my misgivings about mixed toilets, and some other points raised here.
I won't call myself a feminist. I might also mention the changes to rules in Olympics competitors and how I feel it disadvantages women.

MPs (and Euro MPs) make the legislation or at least have input. I could email but imv a letter will take more effort for them to reply.

Is it actually legal for a man to go into a women's open changing rooms and be allowed to stay if he says "I identify as a woman"? Or is it just slowly being accepted? I will write to my mp too but don't know where we are legally in this.

Have a look at this link, MrsJamin

www.transgendertrend.com/uk-government-report-on-transgender-equality/

Looks like there's the potential for it to be actually legal for a man to go into a women's open changing rooms and be allowed to stay if he says "I identify as a woman"? pretty soon.

What I think makes me uneasy about expressing concern about the erosion of women's rights in favour or transgender rights is that it can appear that I am sharing views with the religious right, or indeed any of those that go against my strictly libertarian ideals

I suspect the transgender movement is counting on this. They know that most people (excepting maybe the religious right) don't want to be labelled as transphobic bigots. It's a very effective way of shutting down arguments or concerns.

If we can no longer guarantee that womens changing rooms are a safe place for unaccompanied younger children to get changed eg for swimming lessons, do the proposed changes in legislation mean I can (temporarily) self-identify as male to accompany my young sons into the men's changing room to keep an eye on them while they get changed?

To be fair, we could never guarantee safety - but we could make it much less risky because men commit most crime, and a man seen in the women's changing rooms would be chucked out.

More and more I'm realising how careful I have to be with my language, or it's jumped on as a way to deflect the argument.

That's exactly what I think Green: in the unlikely event of a serious attack, a woman in the changing rooms/loos has advance warning that something might be 'off' before the man gets close to her.

In a mixed-gender situation a potential attacker can get within a hand's reach before the issue is clear.

That touching distance is what self-defence classes warn against.

So basically women are warned not to put themselves in danger, but to ignore this potential danger as it's "bigoted" and "trans exclusionary"

To be clear: I'm talking about loos/changing rooms which are almost empty. I'm not scaremongering about busy areas. I have been grabbed in a busy area but it's not
life threatening like these situations could be.

The more airtime transactivists get, the more people will realise how bad this is for women and how MTTs continually push women's boundaries to achieve validation.

I'm really hoping it's going to be one of those 'give them enough rope' situations in the end.

I'm really hoping it's going to be one of those 'give them enough rope' situations in the end.

So long as we're not tied to oppressive (for women) legislation by then. I've been wondering how the Police (and public) will be able to manage indecent exposure cases in women's changing rooms, as some people like to strip off with wild abandon. How do you judge whether someone is exposing themselves vs getting changed? Will it come down to whether they have an erection, or is it now a judgement call over whether they are taking rather too long to get dressed? Are we expected to make a subjective decision about their other behaviour - are they leering etc? Do a whole load of sexual offences legislative provisions become unenforceable? At the moment, if a man goes into changing rooms and exposes himself it is pretty clear cut that an offence has been committed. We'd be moving into "he said, she said" territory - a lot like 'date' rape - under this new legislation, where pervs will be arguing they've been misunderstood or people are being prejudiced against transeomen. (And, to be clear, I'm not saying its transwomen who'll be committing offences - its every other chancer riding on their coat tails.)

StitchesInTime 's link page has a template letter and link to MPs details

Find your MP:
www.theyworkforyou.com/

Template Letter:
www.transgendertrend.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Template-letter-2.pdf

If a man shows an unwilling/unsuspecting random girl or woman is cock in real life its called flashing and is a sexual crime. It's also know to be often a pre cursor to escalating sexual offences. Many rapists start off as flashers and voyeurs.

Some of these concerns chimed when I saw this Report it to Stop it campaign on TV last night - the self-doubt/questioning whether you should say/do anything really chimed with me (I've been sexually assaulted on public transport several times). How many young women will now not feel safe in changing rooms/toilets?

God - that was badly written. You get my drift

f we can no longer guarantee that womens changing rooms are a safe place for unaccompanied younger children to get changed eg for swimming lessons, do the proposed changes in legislation mean I can (temporarily) self-identify as male to accompany my young sons into the men's changing room to keep an eye on them while they get changed?

That's a brilliant idea.
The legislation change to such an extent, that any man can put a wig and frock on and state ''I identify as a woman'' and then go and sit in a woman's changing room.

A good way we could rebel against this, if and when it happens. is if we women (en masse) took to going into the men's changing rooms with our sons.
When challenged, we can state ''I identify as a man'' look! I'm even wearing trousers and have short hair
They wouldn't be able to argue against it, because that would make them hypocrites.

If enough women started doing this, they might think again.
It's something that is doable as they wouldn't be able to prove that you don't really want to be a man.