And so it begins: Transwoman is running for women's officer of NUS

[PosieReturningParker]

Some of her aims:

Gender neutral sex ed
Women in leadership making room for transwomen (because you know how many women are in leadership roles)
BUS accepting transwomen to compete as women in sports

Oh I see, I just assumed it was something depressing! I will have a look and try to avoid the comments section.

Fucking Lindy West. A while ago she retweeted something by someone like Glosswitch or Sarah Ditum and some guy told her they had "a history of transphobia" so she deleted the tweet. Didn't even do some digging to find out if what he said was true, just listened to a random man and did what he wanted her to do. Yay, woman power

Surely the answer to the toilets issue is that boys have to be nicer to boys who wear dresses? We have to ensure men and boys can deal with boys of all varieties.

Have read posts and cannot articulate how angry this makes me. The implications of this madness, many of which have been outlined here so eloquently, really scare me. If anyone has any ideas how we as individuals or as an active group, can stem the tide please enlighten me. Because I sure as hell haven't . Particularly as our right to free speech is now eroded and we cant even change ideologies through debate. I despair.

Cerseirys- that is interesting to know. I follow Glosswitch, she is great.

Ah sorry, it was Sarah D and not Glosswitch. www.feministcurrent.com/2014/07/29/how-terf-works/

Surely the answer to the toilets issue is that boys have to be nicer to boys who wear dresses? We have to ensure men and boys can deal with boys of all varieties.

You mean deal with male violence and toxic masculinity

Shuddup...

Oh my goodness - that article... never read the comments. There is a TW there who is insisting she is biologically female - I can't tell whether it's a wind up or just sheer delusion but it's 100% infuriating.

It also highlights the wilful ignoring of any woman's concerns - apparently if we're not happy sharing toilets / showers / changing rooms with biological men we should just stay home. So let's restrict 51% of the population to aid 1%, that sounds proportionate.

It would be interesting to have a national poll

OneFlew, is it Wakame by any chance? They are always found commenting on trans articles, usually linking to some site called Cake World which will "prove" their point.

It's interesting though that in online spaces and 'right on' places like universities, this is a big issue. But out in the real world, I am more hopeful that the lunatics haven't yet taken over the asylum. If a man started getting changed in the women's communal changing room at our local gym and parading round naked, I don't fancy his chances of getting away with saying 'I'm a woman so I'm staying here'. And I don't much fancy his chances in the court of local newspaper opinion either. This troubles me, in that I'm not usually on that kind of side of public opinion, but there we go. I am still hopeful that we are talking about a very vocal but very, very small minority which is still more light than fire. NUS politics in general probably comes under that heading:) God, I really hope I am right...

I've read the Guardian stories about public toilets and I think it is somewhat depressing. Or at least the way they're covering it is. I found 2 articles.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/19/transgender-restroom-use-americas-next-battle-for-equality-and-recognition

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/21/public-toilets-battleground-for-bigots-legislate-trans-people-out-of-existence-south-dakota

The writers of both articles are clearly very pro trans rights and disapproving of South Dakota ruling that you should use toilets based on your biological sex. I can see the argument about transpeople feeling unsafe using men's toilets if they have a very feminine appearance or vice versa - but I do feel that Posie is right when she says Surely the answer to the toilets issue is that boys have to be nicer to boys who wear dresses? We have to ensure men and boys can deal with boys of all varieties

The writer in the first article (19th Feb) mentions a case in Seattle last week where a man entered a women's changing room at a pool, and refused to leave because the law had changed and he had a "right to be there". The writer also mentions other instances of men being encouraged to occupy women's restrooms. The bolded text below is a quote from the first article:

While these acts are meant to illustrate the danger of “men in women’s restrooms”, they prove the exact opposite: it’s the will of the privileged and the powerful that remains a grave threat to trans Americans. Many cisgender people are so uncomfortable with the idea of trans bodies that they would rather spread widely debunked myths about pernicious “bathroom predators” than accept the basic human rights of transgender people. The problem isn’t trans folks; it’s everyone else

This reasoning makes me very uncomfortable. It's like they're saying that because there are no documented cases of transpeople harming or harassing anyone else in a public restroom, anyone who objects to making restrooms open to someone identifying as the opposite sex is just being a bigot with imaginary fears.

But while I haven't ever heard any news reports of a transperson harming others in a public toilet, I have unfortunately heard news reports about men (who presumably also identified themselves as men) attacking or raping others in public toilets. I don't think it's irrational or transphobic to be concerned that some predatory or voyeurism men might like to take advantage of laws allowing self identifed transwomen free access to women's spaces. But, of course, the Guardian's slant is that such concerns are transphobic, and transpeople should be allowed to use whichever toilet they like, because any feelings or fears a "cis-person" may have don't count unless they're unreservedly pro transpeople.

FWIW, the Guardian article links to a Seattle article about this man entering the women's changing area, which says that the man made no verbal or physical attempt to identify as a woman, yet he still cited a new rule that allows bathroom choice based on gender identification.

Crikey. That turned out a bit long. Sorry.

This troubles me, in that I'm not usually on that kind of side of public opinion, but there we go

That's just how I feel Zoe. I feel kind of sorry for Anna because she's so clearly poorly equipped for the job and comes across as so awkward. Then I read some of the things she's written and I'm like WTAF? I completely accept people's freedom to define and name their own identity and experience. But what the fuck happened to mine? If I complain, I'm accused of being transphobic!

I don't care what the hell anyone else calls themselves, but I want to be able to call myself a woman. Not a 'cis' woman. If that makes me transphobic then I'd hate to hear what it makes 99% of society.

Yes it is Cerseirys - they seem to be a somewhat confused individual.

Here's the site they keep linking to. I am not a scientist so cannot verify how good the studies they cite are www.cakeworld.info/

ShortcutButton the problem with a national poll is that people get so confused over the issue and the language used e.g. most people don't know the difference between sex and gender and most people don't know that the majority of trans people don't have gender reassignment surgery.
And the results will get twisted. For example if the poll shows that 61% of people believe gender is non-binary, that will become synonymous with "Most women are happy to have men that identify as women speaking for them." Those two things are not related but I think it will be reported like that and most people just accept what they're told.

the problem with a national poll is that people get so confused over the issue and the language used e.g. most people don't know the difference between sex and gender and most people don't know that the majority of trans people don't have gender reassignment surgery.

Yes, this. Until fairly recently, the most commonly used terminology was "pre-op/post-op transsexual". It was taken as read that men who transitioned always had gender reassignment surgery at some stage.

Sorry, pressed 'post' too soon. I was going to add that a lot of people will be unaware that "transgender" and "transsexual" are not the same thing.

I was chatting to my sister about this recently and she admitted that she had never really thought about the difference between sex and gender. She came out in the side of Germaine Greer after discussing it though!

I agree that the while thing shoukd be an issue for men but ibstead it's being dumped at the door of women to resolve. There is clearly something wrong with how we are raising boys. No man should ever have to escape to womanhood simply because it's the only route from toxic masculinity.

I think we need to drop the 'trans woman' and 'trans man' terminology if we want to ever discuss this issue honestly. Trans activists have popularised these terms to mean the exact opposite of reality. A male with dysphoria is a dysphoric male, not a 'trans woman'. If we use accurate terms the conversation can stop going in endless circles of nonsense.

The battle to open women's spaces to dysphoric males makes no sense when you acknowledge reality in the language. There's no point shouting that 'dysphoric males are women' because it's obviously a nonsense. No need to call anyone 'cis' because women are women and men are men and people with dysphoria are acknowledged as such without having to twist everyone else's reality in knots.

Transitioning is not a real thing. As well we could call it pretending, or acting, or assuming a role, for those who do it successfully. But they haven't transitioned to any end point where they actually become the opposite sex, so why do we continue to use this term that implies a journey and an end point? Why do we tell these lies that cause us such difficulty, just to be 'nice'?? Really?

It doesn't matter if the public don't really agree with the trans stuff because the laws and practices of organisations (including schools etc) are changing without consultation with the public. It's being slipped by us all. So much has already been slipped past by activists pushing their propaganda on legislators and management (of schools etc) who do not understand that they have been misled. Not misled - lied to. Total out and out lies.

The lies are in the basic terminology. The lies are in the implication that 'trans' means what people understand as 'transsexual' when the new meanings are far broader than that. The lies are in the false statistics and the fake 'research' done by activists to spec.

It's like feminists are constantly trying to reason with logic and honesty but it's getting us nowhere because the opposition isn't playing by those rules! They are using outright lies, blackmail, harassment, threats. The least we could do if we want to get anywhere is to stop alowing to set all the terms of the discussion!

They call us murderers and wish death on us even when we tie ourselves in knots trying to be nice about it. Why do people keep saying Anna seems nice? Anna seems deluded at best, and Anna is pursuing an actively misogynist path that will have real negative impact on the lives of women and girls. What's nice about that??

Cerseirys
I've just skimmed some of the references on that cake website and very few articles are peer reviewed. Those that are, refer to sexual behaviour ie homosexuality (there are certain characteristics that gay men share with straight women for eg).

The references about 'gendered brains' look very dodgy to me. I haven't read the original studies properly but at first glance I'd be very surprised if any of them stood up to critical analysis (if they were any good they would have been published properly for a start).

I'm not an expert in the field but I have done post doctoral research in developmental neuroscience so I'm fairly well read.

I think we need to drop the 'trans woman' and 'trans man' terminology if we want to ever discuss this issue honestly. Trans activists have popularised these terms to mean the exact opposite of reality. A male with dysphoria is a dysphoric male, not a 'trans woman'. If we use accurate terms the conversation can stop going in endless circles of nonsense.

I agree but I also think it could confuse people to use those terms in the opposite way to how others use them. "Transgendered male", perhaps? Although that's a more cumbersome term.

I think it started off as being nice Vincent; because uncountable trans people have a tough time. And most people are nice and don't really mind a small shift in language to make others lives easier.

Then when boundaries were getting pushed and crossed, some people started asking questions, like 'ere, we are actually supposed to believe that these people are actual WOMEN, are we'????

I've certainly been through a phase of resolutely using correct pronouns. For clarity. And because the whole situation is honestly just fucking nuts isn't it.

But wearily, I have to concede that it is self defeating. More people are more ready to dismiss you as a bigot.. I think we might have to be super nice to win hearts and minds

I don't know

I am seriously seriously cooking up plans to leave Europe for less liberal pastures

This is the same argument black people have with white liberals, trying to tell them how to feel about their own damn oppression

uncountably not uncountable