Young dependent male children in women's only spaces?

[PrincessTeacake]

Long term lurker here, very infrequent contributer.

Circumstances over the last year have meant I spent most of my very little free time on Tumblr, for convenience's sake, and I fell into the radfem circles there. Every now and then there's a rift in the community over something and it all gets a bit childish because they are mostly young and quite reactionary. I stay out of it for the most part, but I wanted to get some (more sensible) opinions here on the latest rift.

Someone brought up the topic of little boys in women's only spaces (bathrooms, changing rooms, emergency shelters) and there was a lot of talk about how boys can't be trusted under any circumstances, that it was equally as bad as letting intact transwomen in, and naturally some of the mothers in the community got quite upset. There was a lot of anti-child rhetoric being thrown around and some harassment of the mothers.

What's the consensus here? I'm asking mostly for one of my online friends, she was very upset by this discussion and was on the receiving end of quite a bit of the bullying.

it doesn't 'suit' her it's the reality of her situation of a woman responsible for the safety adn wellbeing of her child who happens to be male but a CHILD not a fucking predator.

stop pretending having a male child is some kind of option. a child is a child and we have to take care of them. when you say the male ones must disappear you disappear their mothers too.

these are children!

The issue isn't about my son having priority over anyone's daughter. The issue is that we need more family changing rooms. Once a boy reaches 8 he, in my opinion, is still too young to use the male changing room on his own. That is the issue. It is women generally who take young kids swimming so why aren't we asking for more family otientated changing rooms instead of arguing over who has more rights than others. My child's safety will always come first. When dads take those young daughters swimming what do they do? Send them into the females on their own?

"t doesn't 'suit' her it's the reality of her situation of a woman responsible for the safety adn wellbeing of her child who happens to be male but a CHILD not a fucking predator"

It "suits" her for some reason not to use the changing spaces for people with disabilities as she is perfectly entitled to do

And nobody is saying that boy children are "fucking predators" RTFT.

"When dads take those young daughters swimming what do they do? Send them into the females on their own?"

When they reach the age of 8, then yes.

would they send them into a male one though? why not? does the presence of a pre-pubescent penis somehow make it less intimidating? they are children - not males or females. if we spent less time fucking obsessing over the right behaviours/places/behaviours for CHILDREN according to their genitals the world would be a better place.

"Suit"????? I would love to be able to send my 8 year old off to the men's to get changed. However I can't and I will not risk my child's safety. I'm also not changing him on the side of the pool like someone suggested. When architects and planners start designing changing rooms properly (centre parcs manages it ok) then I will let my child get changed on his own.

and of course there are an equal number of men taking children swimming alone and of course being an unaccompanied child in a male only or female only space is exactly the same.

it is interesting how concern for children due to male behaviours disappears when the children happen to be male.

"would they send them into a male one though? why not?

Well, no. Because they are girls.

suddenly male spaces and having males in places where children are alone and naked is FINE when those children are male. mention a MTT in a women's changing room and suddenly the dangers (despite the ratios being entirely different) are real. one male child alone in an adult male space without his mother is fine. one MTT in a female changing space full of women is terrible though.

i don't think people can really see what they are saying and revealing in what they say.

i think you're being deliberately obtuse bertrand. are you a lone parent of a male child?

""Suit"????? I would love to be able to send my 8 year old off to the men's to get changed. However I can't and I will not risk my child's safety."

So use the changing rooms for people with disabilities. You are entitled to.

"i think you're being deliberately obtuse bertrand. are you a lone parent of a male child?"

No. But I am the parent of a male child. And we went swimming a lot when he was younger.

It does suit her. By 8yrs old an nt child can use changing rooms unsupervised. Sn of course allows access to disabled facilities.

Neither have remotely hinted I think boys over 8 are predators. Simply that it does make girls of the same age and older uncomfortable. And as its a female changing room the female has a right to feel comfortable. As an adult woman I wouldn't care about a prepuberty boy in the changing rooms. And even one early teens my concern would be about the boys embarrassment, not my own. However the young girls who are actually entitled to be in there generally don't feel that way.

Maybe those with older boys could garner opinion on the day as to whether it would offend any men if they went in their changing room? After all, if it's ok to expect older girls to change infront of lads in the same age range, the mother of an older boy should be quite happy changing in front of men her own age.

That's been asked a few times, Bertrand, but no answer, sadly.

People want to be offended and outraged rather than sensible . Use the bloody disabled or family changing if your child has or is suspected of having a disablity. If you just think hes too imature and you are unable to comply with the rules - use the family rooms or if not avalible ask the staff.

(resists the use of special snowflakes)

Those who are fine with older boys being in the ladies as 'they want to be with them', why do you not get changed with them in the mens?

Because men and boys Harv w right to a male only space too.

Caroldrcker I really shouldn't be bothered to answer that but next time a dad takes his 7/8 year old daughter swimming I'll tell him to pop into the ladies and get changed in there with his daughter. Same argument????

Legally as an adult straight female I'm not even sure if I'm allowed to get changed in the men's with my son and I certainly don't wish to see a load of old naked males bodies - will put me off my tea thanks.

Itisbetternow- why don't you want to use the changing room for disabled people with your son?

Because he isn't disabled.

You said he had suspected ASD.........

Thinking about this, the spot quiz could, instead of asking what age restrictions exist at your local pop, be asking does your local pool have adequate facilities for older children who can't yet be left to change unsupervised, be that unisex facilities or family and disabled changing rooms if segregated.

I'll start... Yes ours do, unisex throughout plus some larger cubicles and also a disabled changing room that leads straight to the poolside. Works great.

If its really a significant issue then what can be done about it? Contacting local councils, private firms, or larger public bodies? Would anyone actually be willing to do that?

No not me. My son doesn't have ASD.

Exactly Twoleftsocks that is the issue not us women punishing each other for doing the best with our kids. As I said earlier Centre Parcs manages with no issues so why can't public leisure facilities?