I have made a most unfeminist decision and I am struggling with it

[PacificDogwod]

I identify as a feminist, but have made a rather unfeminist choice last year that I fully intend to stick with, but am struggling to reconcile with my feminist convictions.

Is that 'allowed'?
Does it make me a hypocrite?? I suspect so.
Is there some validity in believing in certain principles but not living by them when it comes to the crunch??
Can certain principles be right and proper but don't applied in all cases??

I'd rather make this a general discussion than going in to ins and outs of it all wrt to us here - we've got a very good counsellor for that

PD I don't know how far down the line you are, but I'd say it took my dh at least a year to come to terms enough with his behaviour enough to really properly apologise. Realising that you are not the good person you always thought you were, but actually capable of deeply selfish and unpleasant behaviour is I think quite hard if you are generally a normally nice kind of person. Easier to excuse your behaviour and deflect instead.

I'm wondering about this, because I am not sure how radical and liberal and left are being conceptualised in this discussion.

Liberal feminists, if we take first wave feminism and subsequent liberal action in the 1970s, was about using the legal framework to create conditions of equality. Thus, in your situation, PD, this means that the legal framework exists so that you could, if you so wished, leave your marriage, access divorce, and expect an equal split of assets and an equal consideration of your case in family law (in practice this doesn't work, given the cuts in legal aid and the income disparity between men and women which still exists - but the liberal response here is surely to fight those cuts and income inequality, i.e. in legal term and political terms).

Radical feminism is about challenging the inherently gendered social norms within which we operate (in a more practical, on the ground manner), so in terms of marriage, it was about addressing issues of domestic violence, rape (within and outwith marriage), sexual discrimination and the gendered expectation that women were the mothers and homemakers etc. I am not sure which radical feminist publication (and I am taking second wave here, if you want to go back to the roots) ever said the only feminist response to adultery is to leave the marriage. The feminist response would be not to accept/ignore/condone - which to take the OP, PD, you have actually taken a very active position in responding in light of your own circumstances; and you are challenging accepted gender/social roles (by being financially independent, by holding the behaviour to account, by standing true to your own values (I need to come back to this, because it doesn't necessarily involve your DH having to agree with you).

The whole 'choice' view of liberal feminism is third wave neo-liberal feminism. To quote Nancy Fraser, neoliberal feminism is 'divorced' from social solidarity - thus, the whole 'choice' neoliberal conceptualisation of feminism is about women having access to the same goods, behaviours, choices as men (in a free market, capitalist economy). It it is a very recent capitalist view of feminism - the whole 'choice' agenda is neoliberal, it is not liberal. There is nothing you are doing, if one views it like that, PD which inhibits women from making a different choice.

If you want to think about the left as social solidarity, then you could argue that by challenging social norms within your marriage, you are challenging the position of women. It depends what you do when you stay in a marraige (or in Nooka and my experience, what you do when you start to reconcile). DS is climbing over me, so I hope that makes sense...

Sorry, all of that should have come with the caveat - as I understand it, not that I am imposing my perception

The problem, if you like, with neoliberal 'choice' feminism is that it assumes that the playing field is level. It is not for income and socially ingrained child rearing attitudes and responsibility (as well as personal responsibility); but 'choice' feminism ignores that, it serves the market by repackaging choice in market oriented ways (the market would benefit from you separating and setting up two homes, paying legal fees etc).

In your case, you have the choice to take the latter course as you can afford to serve the market (such a choice would be valid if you wished, yes). However, it is not liberal : the liberal feminist position for the good of women would be to fight the inequality which means all women cannot exercise the 'choice' which you can, if that makes sense.

The radical feminist position would be to fight oppression at grassroots level to dismantle the ingrained structures of privilege which allow inequality to flourish.

Within that, there are plenty of ways not to compromise your values whilst working through the issues in your marriage. Pick your battles. Your energy may be better spent finding some activity which works for the broader good of womankind, whilst actively re-shaping your marriage towards equality. There are many different ways to crack an egg.

The issues women face are not whether you choose to stay or go - they are how we actually create conditions where that is an actual, real choice for all women.

Yes, I am over-analysing, so I stop now. Of course, you need to advocate for yourself before you can advocate for anyone else, but you know best how to do that.

Will stop now...

Oh flip, Romii, it's post like yours that bring home to me how utterly ignorant I am of feminist theory and the huge amount of reading I would have to do to catch up - thank you so much

NB. I am an avid reader but have kinda gone out of my way to avoid anything overtly feminist as I don't think I could cope with The Rage
This is after 'The Politics of BFing' almost gave me apoplexy.

Neoliberalism (in a more general political context) can fuck right off.
I do NOT believe that we should all be free to make whatever choice we feel like at whatever cost to others/society - and that applies to men and women. I am not sure how that translates to feminism, but in principle I believe in 'Love thy neighbour as thyself' and I mean that in an entirely non-religious way: Be kind to yourself and others, forgive your mistakes as you strive to forgive others, and do the right thing by yourself and others. Sometimes hard to reconcile...

I think that one of the most important things that I discovered during my difficult days was that if you reach out for help you will get it in spades. I was so supported by some wonderful women and it made such a huge difference to me (some lovely guys too, but the women connected in a different way often with shared experiences which made me feel so much less alone and vulnerable). I have in small ways been able to reciprocate, and discovered that that too was empowering and special. I don't know if that's about expressing feminism or just being part of community, but either way it made me feel that my experiences had some positive aspects as well as the truly shitty ones.

I have not read 'The politics of breastfeeding'; and probably wouldn't, as the breastfeeding/bottlefeeding threads in various places put me off ever discussing it for life. Ditto anything about working mothers/SAHM etc. I actually don't feel the need any longer to justify my choices against the choices of other women; if men are not held to the same standard. However, I need to be morally and ethically comfortable with them; and over the years, I have realised that to be morally and ethically comfortable, I have to reconcile the caring, nurturing part of me with the part that says you have the opportunity/ability for a great career, take it.

So, the latter point is really why I have been having this discussion with myself (and trying to work out how on earth the current phase on feminism has come about, but there are enough threads about that).

I don't know how H and I will end up long term, I really don't. I am working with forgiveness in my meditation practice just now, because I don't want to carry around any more resentment about things that have happened (not only relating to him, but elsewhere in my life). So, I thought I would share this sentence which really resonated with me in light of thinking these things through:

"forgiveness is not about helplessly accepting, giving up, surrendering to defeat, being weak, or avoiding the cost of justice. It is about how you hold in your heart a terrible wrong while you act in the world to correct that wrong and try to prevent it from happening again". - See more at: dharmawisdom.org/teachings/articles/forgiving-unforgivable#sthash.MWWTRzap.dpuf