I have made a most unfeminist decision and I am struggling with it

[PacificDogwod]

I identify as a feminist, but have made a rather unfeminist choice last year that I fully intend to stick with, but am struggling to reconcile with my feminist convictions.

Is that 'allowed'?
Does it make me a hypocrite?? I suspect so.
Is there some validity in believing in certain principles but not living by them when it comes to the crunch??
Can certain principles be right and proper but don't applied in all cases??

I'd rather make this a general discussion than going in to ins and outs of it all wrt to us here - we've got a very good counsellor for that

[PalmerViolet]

Twinkle.. this is probably not the thread to rehash that particular subject.

My understanding of it is that it's a support thread, not an invitation to a bunfight.

Sorry.

[alicemalice]

You need to do what's right for you. But it does sounds like you're not 100% with your decision and it's not sitting right with you. I wonder if that will continue to eat away at you?

[Casmama]

I think for me,and I hope this doesn't offend anyone, feminism is a bit like religion. There is a lot of theory and we strive to make live and act according to this theory but sometimes the right way is not entirely clear or for some reason we choose not to do what is theoretically the right thing.
I think that's ok and whilst it's important to strive, following the theory 100% is rarely possible and that doesn't make us hypocritical it just makes us human.

[PacificDogwod]

Oh, I go by three name: my original name, my married name and the double-barrelled on in my passport that I never actually use other than when booking plane tickets

alice, time will tell. It's not eating away at me - at present the balance of considerations is in favour of staying which might not always stay like that.

[BertrandRussell]

I think whoknows put it very well. But I would add one thing- if you have children it changes the game a bit. If you're modeling an unhealthy relationship for them then you may need to think again. Would you like your daughter to do whatever it is you've done- or for your son to expect his partner to?

[Twinklestein]

Violet, it was you not me who 'rehashed it', I just asked a question.

OP, I think you need to define your interpretation of feminist 'principles' and the way in which you feel that you're not 'living by them'. Otherwise the matter is too nebulous to comment.

[CwtchMeQuick]

Personally, I think of feminism as striving to give women equal opportunities as men. And as part of that, is having the power to make choices and decisions that suit you as an individual.
To be a feminist you don't have to base your decisions around what's right for women as a whole. I think it's more to do with allowing us all to have the power of choice.
So if you choose to be a SAHM, or to change your name when you get married, or to move for your husbands career, that's not unfeminist, because you made the decision that's right for you, taking into account factors that are important to you (job, friends, family, location, principles). Does that make sense?
What I'm trying to say is, if you make a decision that is what you want, not what someone else tells you you should want, I dont think that's unfeminist.

[BertrandRussell]

"To be a feminist you don't have to base your decisions around what's right for women as a whole."
Ah. I was about to address this, then realized that it wouldn't be appropriate on this thread- bugger! Fancy starting another one so we can talk about it?

[WhoKn0wsWhereTheMistletoes]

I agree with Bertrand about children, a lot depends on your every day behaviour, respect, support etc. But the model of two parents who could both live independently if the need arose is not a bad thing. My parents have had their ups and downs, they do not appear lovey-dovey towards each other but they are respectful, supportive and live together mostly harmoniously. My DM has always maintained financial independence with my DF's total approval and support and both parents have always stressed the importance of this to me, I really respect them for it and feel they have been good role models.

[TheWomanInTheWall]

"It'd be refusing to trust yourself as an authority on your own life."

Well put.

OP, others have made very good points about keeping yourself in a position to make an alternative decision. I will just add this:

Every day is a chance to make the choice again. If every day you are making an active choice that staying is the right thing for you, for now, on balance, then you are a woman in control of her life. Who knows her options and weighs them up to find the best one.

That is freedom and is a feminist action - not in a "choice feminism" way but in a measured, imperfect world way.

[magimedi]

I don't often venture onto the feminist threads, although I do consider myself to be a feminist. (I find the intellect & amazing clarity of posting a bit intimidating).

But here I am, because it is you, PD.

What you choose to do is what you do is as a person first & as a feminist second.

What you decide to do now is not a decision that has to stay set in stone for ever. It is for the now & if it works carry on. If things change you too can change.

And I know I am just repeating what Bertrand said a couple of posts behind me:

""To be a feminist you don't have to base your decisions around what's right for women as a whole".

I hope things work out for you & I'd just say (as a 'veteran' of 32 years of marriage) that it is an ever changing & evolving thing & there have been times when I could have left & chose not to & right now my marriage is good - but that's now, not two years down the line. Life goes on & changes all the time.

[magimedi]

And TheWomanintheWall has posted whilst I have havered over my post & put it so much better than me.

[7Days]

It's often said on here that one woman shouldn't be held up as representing all women. That's you, that is, PacificDogwood.

Sometimes feminism is just about choice.

[TeiTetua]

Well, there are things that no feminist should ever do or forgive, like abetting a rape or something. But if it's a private action that mostly affects your own life, I don't think you need to apply a rigid feminist standard and nothing else. "The personal is political" indeed, but it's still personal, and are we free people or slaves?

Think of all the cosmetics and high heels that are purchased and used by feminists, the legs that are shaved, even pubic hair (O it is a tragedy) but most of the time, I would say it's more important to think about what we're doing and being aware of how we're influenced in our choices, rather than deciding any issue any particular way. If we came down on the non-feminist or anti-feminist side consistently, then we might have something to worry about. But a few decisions that feel right for ourselves as individuals even if they aren't quite following the party line? I wouldn't be too concerned.

[Wileycoyote]

Are you sure that the 'principle' you that makes you think perhaps you should leave but don't want to isn't your gut feeling.
In my experience that was the case: I knew, but didn't want to know.

If that is the case, it still doesn't mean you should leave though. Maybe you know you should but you just don't want to - as long as you are honest with yourself I think you can live with it. I have had to swallow some uncomfortable truths about myself on the way, and hey, no ones perfect!!

[AnxiousMunchkin]

Some great points in this thread. I just wanted to say that someone wrote something about the decision being leaving a cheater vs forgiving them- and I feel it is quite possible to stay and work on the relationship together and not feel duty bound to forgive the infidelity. It's something I'm going through now. And I've said that what my partner has done is not for me to forgive, it's not a forgivable thing in that way, it's for him to process his guilt and shame over and I can't help him with that.

And also agree with each day actively making the decision to stay, because I want to, not because I feel I have to. I don't think it's un-feminist, really quite the opposite.

to you OP

[Clarella]

I'm so glad I read this thread.

I liked your post magimedi. I feel the same about joining in the feminist discussion - I feel I am but not knowledgeable enough to fully recognise all intricacies.

Op, many have told me to leave on these boards when I've struggled with issues between DH and I. But we've worked through them - me how to understand how he thinks so I can help him understand things differently and him to change and listen to my views. And he's been learning. And things are different. And I have a close friend who really does need to leave her partner as he had no capacity to learn, change or acquire new understanding.

So, yes, we never stop learning, we never stop changing, relationships evolve - and in either way, worsen or improve?

Principles are important but I have a completely different set of principles in my professional life now to those I started with due to my ongoing learning around the area. Including the learning I've acquired becoming a parent.

[RomiiRoo]

Not got time to read the whole thread yet, but will come back and do so

Only got to the part about not leaving - I left three years ago. Since last summer we have been reconciling, albeit in a very different landscape. Not going to comment further without RTFT but life is not black and white.

[PacificDogwod]

To be a feminist you don't have to base your decisions around what's right for women as a whole.

I'd be interested to discuss that some more here tbh - I think that's what I am stuck on and cannot get past.
No need to pussy-foot around my own personal situation; I've got plenty of RL support and advice for that - I need some Vipers to be more rigorous with me

Thank you for all your thoughts and support though - magi, your wisdom is alway much appreciated

Just for the record (and I've said it before), I am not a well-read feminist, well, I am well-read, but not in feminist literature and certainly not theory, but always found this corner of MN v interesting and enlightening, even for a lurker like me.

And now I'm hoping RomiiRoo will be back soon….

[BertrandRussell]

"To be a feminist you don't have to base your decisions around what's right for women as a whole.

I'd be interested to discuss that some more here tbh - I think that's what I am stuck on and cannot get past.
No need to pussy-foot around my own personal situation; I've got plenty of RL support and advice for that - I need some Vipers to be more rigorous with me grin"

OK, then, I think you do actually!

[PacificDogwod]

Do what? Base my decisions on what's right for women as a whole?

That does seem rather presumptuous

[BertrandRussell]

I'm sure you do - but what I meant was I think that one -collectively as feminists- should

[PacificDogwod]

Ah! Yes, I agree with that, but as said upthread 'The personal is political'. On the one hand.

On the other, I'd never expect anybody to make the same decision as I did.

[CwtchMeQuick]

"To be a feminist you don't have to base your decisions around what's right for women as a whole."

It's been a very long day and I can't work out what people think about this comment I made yesterday that keeps cropping up

[PacificDogwod]

Cwetch, it's the crux of my 'problem', I think, and you've worded it well

Am I indulging myself by making a decision that I feel right for me and now and is that what feminism mean, namely that I have the luxury to do just that? And do I let women trapped in relationships they don't want to remain in down by staying??

I did not even scroll back to see who had originally posted that sentence, but like the sentiment that being 'fond of him is a good reason to stay' has been agreed and disagreed with, your statement invites discussion, so thanks for that.

I would like to whole-heartedly agree, but may actually disagree… v confusing.