General Trans thread part 2

[ChiefClerkDrumknott]

Following on from this one General Trans thread
Because I'm not Elsa and can't let it go

Even a quick read of this thread suggest there is a lot of anger. ..
Some examples...

You don't need examples. I told you that we are angry

This "debate" between radical feminism and the trans community is being seen by mainstream as a particularly nasty fight with some issues, risks and fears (on both sides) being deliberately exaggerated.

And who do you think started the fight? I think you'll find some rad fem fears stem from being threatened with death and rape when they bring up objections to some of these 'issues' you glibly dismiss. Do you not think that's an understandable reaction? By the way, have you popped over to Twitter or Tumblr yet to plead with 'TERF' killers to be less aggressive?

As mentioned earlier, I may be completely wrong. Perhaps the best solution is to get even angrier, even more offensive and aggressive...

You know what, as I said we are angry and we are 'aggressive', if you term defending women's rights vocally and loudly and consistently aggressive

In case anyone here hasn't come across the utterly sane TW Miranda Yardley:
genderapostates.com/transgender-ideology-needs-to-change-to-support-women/
I follow her on FB. She's great.

She is. I understand transactivists have targeted some of her followers? Shows what a threat her voice is to them.

This seminar may be of interest to people on this thread:

(I asked for my previous post to be removed as it contained some info that shouldn't have been public)

Westminster Social Policy Forum Keynote Seminar
Policy priorities for transgender equality

with
Rt Hon Maria Miller MP, Chair, Women and Equalities Committee and former Minister for Women and Equalities and former Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport
and
Rt Hon Paul Burstow, Chair, Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation Trust; Professor of Health & Social Care, City University, London and former Minister of State for Care Services
and
Helen Belcher, Trans Media Watch; Peter Dawson, Prison Reform Trust; Will Huxter, NHS England; Delia Johnston, Trans in Sport and Steve Mulcahy, Richard Lander School, Cornwall

This event is CPD certified

Morning, Wednesday, 15th June 2016
Central London

Book Online | Live Agenda | Our Website | Unsubscribe

Dear XXX

I am writing to give you advance notice of the above seminar. Please note there is a charge for most delegates, although concessionary and complimentary places are available (subject to terms and conditions - see below).

This timely seminar will assess policy priorities for transgender equality, focusing on:
· Issues around NHS services for transgender people;
· The effectiveness of the Gender Recognition Act, the Equality Act 2010 and the Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Act;
· Inclusion in both education and workplace environments; and
· Transphobia (including the portrayal of trans people in the media) and hate crime against trans people.

I thought the subject matter would be of particular interest as delegates are expected to discuss recruitment, employment and best practice in the workplace.

Following the recent Women and Equalities Committee inquiry which considered how trans people still have yet to achieve full equality, attendees will consider how key issues are dealt with by Government agencies, the media, the NHS, the criminal justice system and the education system.

The agenda includes a keynote contribution from Rt Hon Maria Miller MP, Chair, Women and Equalities Committee and former Minister for Women and Equalities and former Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport and Rt Hon Paul Burstow, Chair, Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation Trust; Professor of Health & Social Care, City University, London and former Minister of State for Care.

The conference will bring together health practitioners and commissioners, local authorities, schools and other educational institutions, employers and HR professionals, legal experts, representatives from the criminal justice system, media companies, commentators and academics, campaign and third sector groups and other interested parties.

Delegates will discuss how to best address discrimination in other important public services, and will evaluate the outcome of the review into the care and management of transgender people in prison.

Overall, planned agenda sessions look at:
Policy priorities for addressing transgender equality;
The impact of legislation on gender recognition and identity;
The portrayal of trans people in the media;
The criminal justice system and its impact on transgender people;
Access to health services and treatment; and
How best to achieve an inclusive education and employment environment.

The draft agenda is copied below my signature, and a regularly updated version is available to download here. The seminar is organised on the basis of strict impartiality by the Westminster Social Policy Forum.

Speakers

We are delighted to be able to include in this seminar keynote addresses from: Rt Hon Paul Burstow, Chair, Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation Trust; Professor of Health & Social Care, City University, London and former Minister of State for Care Services and Rt Hon Maria Miller MP, Chair, Women and Equalities Committee and former Minister for Women and Equalities and former Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport.

Further confirmed speakers include: Helen Belcher, Director, Trans Media Watch; Peter Dawson, Deputy Director, Prison Reform Trust; Will Huxter, Regional Director of Specialised Commissioning (London), NHS England; Delia Johnston, Specialist Diversity Consultant, Trans in Sport and Steve Mulcahy, Headteacher, Richard Lander School, Cornwall.

Additional senior participants are being approached, but if you or a colleague would like to be considered as a speaker at this seminar, please contact us at [email protected] specifying the event and session where you would like to speak and we’ll get back to you as soon as possible. If you are offering to speak yourself please don’t fill in the booking form, as this will be taken as an order and you will be charged for a place subject to our T&Cs.

Networking

Westminster Social Policy Forum seminars present an opportunity to engage with key policymakers and other interested parties, and are CPD certified (more details). Typically, attendees at our seminars are a senior and informed group numbering around 100, including Members of both Houses of Parliament, senior government officials involved in this area of social policy, representatives of citizen groups, local authorities, campaigning organisations, businesses and their advisors and social and academic commentators, together with reporters from the national and trade press.

Output and About Us

A key output of the seminar will be a transcript of the proceedings, sent out around 10 working days after the event to all attendees and a wider group of Ministers and officials at the DfE, DH, Home Office and other government departments and agencies affected by the issues; and Parliamentarians with a special interest in these areas. It will also be made available more widely. This document will include transcripts of all speeches and questions and answers sessions from the day, along with access to PowerPoint presentations, speakers’ biographies, an attendee list, an agenda, sponsor information, as well as any subsequent press coverage of the day and any articles or comment pieces submitted by delegates. It is made available subject to strict restrictions on public use, similar to those for Select Committee Uncorrected Evidence, and is intended to provide timely information for interested parties who are unable to attend on the day.

All delegates will receive complimentary PDF copies and are invited to contribute to the content.

The Westminster Social Policy Forum is strictly impartial and cross-party, and draws on the considerable support it receives from within Parliament and Government, and amongst the wider stakeholder community. The Forum has no policy agenda of its own. Forum events are frequently the platform for major policy statements from senior Ministers, regulators and other officials, opposition speakers and senior opinion-formers in industry and interest groups. Events regularly receive prominent coverage in the national and trade press.

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Please pay in advance by credit card on 01344 864796. If advance credit card payment is not possible, please let me know and we may be able to make other arrangements.

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Places at Policy priorities for transgender equality (including refreshments and PDF copy of the transcripts) are £210 plus VAT;
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For those who cannot attend:
Copies of the briefing document, including full transcripts of all speeches and the questions and comments sessions and further articles from interested parties, will be available approximately 10 days after the event for £95 plus VAT;
Concessionary rate: £50 plus VAT.

If you find the charge for places a barrier to attending, please let me know as concessionary and complimentary places are made available in certain circumstances (but do be advised that this typically applies to individual service users or carers or the like who are not supported by or part of an organisation, full-time students, people between jobs or who are fully retired with no paid work, and representatives of small charities - not businesses, individuals funded by an organisation, or larger charities/not-for-profit companies). Please note terms and conditions below (including cancellation charges).

I do hope that you will be able to join us for what promises to be a most useful morning, and look forward to hearing from you soon.

Yours sincerely

Michael Ryan

Michael Ryan
Deputy Editor, Westminster Social Policy Forum

T: 01344 864796
F: 01344 420121

Follow us on Twitter @WSPFEvents

www.westminstersocialpolicyforum.co.uk

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The parliamentary patrons of the Westminster Social Policy Forum are: Lord Adebowale, Sir David Amess MP, Baroness Barker, Lord Best, David Burrowes MP, Douglas Carswell MP, Lord Colwyn, Baroness Coussins, Jack Dromey MP, Clive Efford MP, Nigel Evans MP, Baroness Gardner of Parkes, John Glen MP, Baroness Gould of Potternewton, Baroness Greengross, Lord Haskins, Lord Hope of Craighead, Baroness Howe of Idlicote, Huw Irranca-Davies MP, Diana Johnson MP, Barbara Keeley MP, Rt Hon David Lammy MP, Andrea Leadsom MP, Lord Lester of Herne Hill, Lord Lipsey, The Earl of Listowel, Caroline Lucas MP, Baroness Masham of Ilton, Baroness Massey of Darwen, Rt Hon Nicky Morgan MP, Professor the Lord Patel of Bradford, Mark Pawsey MP, Lord Rea, Lord Redesdale, Baroness Thornton and Rt Hon the Lord Whitty. Note: parliamentary patrons take no financial interest in the Forum.

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FINANCIAL TERMS AND CONDITIONS: The delegate fee includes copies of the presentations via PDF and refreshments. Cancellation policy is as follows: (1) cancellations 14 or more days before the event: £70+VAT cancellation fee per delegate; (2) cancellations less than 14 days before the event: no refunds. Cancellations must be notified in writing to the Westminster Social Policy Forum. No charge will be made for replacement delegates. Transfer of any confirmed booking between events is not possible. The organisers reserve the right to alter the programme and change the speakers without prior notice. The Westminster Social Policy Forum is unable to grant extended credit and therefore must request that full payment be made within 30 days from the date of invoice. Should payment not be received within 30 days from the date of invoice, the Westminster Social Policy Forum will apply an administration charge of £40+VAT, likewise for payments made to our account in error.

Westminster Social Policy Forum Keynote Seminar: Policy priorities for transgender equality
Timing: Morning, Wednesday, 15th June 2016
Venue: Central London

Draft agenda subject to change

8.30 - 9.00
Registration and coffee

9.00 - 9.05
Chair’s opening remarks
Senior Parliamentarian

9.05 - 9.30
Policy priorities for addressing transgender equality
Rt Hon Maria Miller MP, Chair, Women and Equalities Committee; former Minister for Women and Equalities and former Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport
Questions and comments from the floor

9.30 - 9.55
The impact of legislation on gender recognition and identity
Senior representative, policy
Senior representative, legal
Questions and comments from the floor

9.55 - 10.25
The portrayal of trans people in the media - visibility, regulation and dealing with transphobia
Helen Belcher, Director, Trans Media Watch
Senior representative, regulation
Senior representative, social media
Questions and comments from the floor

10.25 - 10.50
The criminal justice system and its impact on transgender people
Peter Dawson, Deputy Director, Prison Reform Trust
Senior representative, probation
Questions and comments from the floor

10.50 - 10.55
Chair’s closing remarks
Senior Parliamentarian

10.55 - 11.25
Coffee

11.25 - 11.30
Chair’s opening remarks
Senior Parliamentarian

11.30 - 11.40
The future for NHS services for transgender people
Rt Hon Paul Burstow, Chair, Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation Trust; Professor of Health & Social Care, City University, London and former Minister of State for Care Services

11.40 - 12.10
Key issues for health services - access to treatment, patient pathways and understanding care
Will Huxter, Regional Director of Specialised Commissioning (London), NHS England
Senior representative, service user
Questions and comments from the floor with Rt Hon Paul Burstow, Chair, Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation Trust; Professor of Health & Social Care, City University, London and former Minister of State for Care Services

12.10 - 12.55
Next steps for an inclusive education and employment environment
Steve Mulcahy, Headteacher, Richard Lander School, Cornwall
Delia Johnston, Specialist Diversity Consultant, Trans in Sport
Senior representative, higher education
Senior representative, business
Questions and comments from the floor

12.55 - 13.00
Chair’s and Westminster Social Policy Forum closing remarks
Senior Parliamentarian
Michael Ryan, Deputy Editor, Westminster Social Policy Forum

Link to the booking form here.

So apart from Maria Miller, there are no women listed as speakers at this event. Helen and Diane are both late transitioners (fitting the common pattern of working in IT, married with children).
Am I being defeatist assuming that this forum will follow the usual pattern of making Trans the most protected class and throwing women under the bus?

I think you may have (sadly) hit the nail on the head there Fox

Any Londoners fancy going?

Would we get a chance to speak, do you think?

Dunno. There's usually some sort of opportunity to ask questions or feedback. About to do school run, but will look at diary when I am back. If I can, I'll go (but am far too wimpy to go on my own).

Actually, not just wimpy. Genuinely concerned for my safety, if I pitch up and start with the whole TERF thing....

Good point. I'm interested too, but I wouldn't go alone.

I think all discussions re attending the conference should be PM only. Will PM you later Empress.

OK Watchers, thanks.

Have just rung the BBC to talk about the slot on the Today programme. Susie Green from Mermaids, cheerfully talking about how she knew her child was a girl and not a boy, as the nursery reported him dressing up as Snow White. Christ.

I shouldn't be so endlessly surprised at the casual sexism, gender essentialism and homophobia spouted by people like Susie Greene, but I still am, I still am.

I've come to the conclusion that they won't be happy until woman as a class is a thing of the past.

Too many MtFs talking over women's voices, telling them what to think, that what they think is wrong anyway, and that they should just sit down and shut up.

Really losing heart now. Men's voices are so much louder than women's, even if they are contained in newly 'feminised' bodies. Or even especially if they are.

It's pretty sickening that society basically hasn't moved on from the idea that women are just men with their dicks lopped off.

Men's voices are so much louder than women's, even if they are contained in newly 'feminised' bodies

This is what gets forgotten.

These bodies are still 8 inches and 2 stone heavier on average, no matter what they're wearing. I don't think that men realise what the world is like when you're smaller - I think they'd be a lot more understanding if they spent a few days hanging around in some place surrounded by professional rugby players.

Next time I'm with friends and there is a queue for the women's loo, we will ID as male and go in the men's. And complain about the lack of sanitary bins.

Bbc news now FTM now identifying as non binary

Just watched the BBC news article re Trans and the problems they face. Did I just hear the head of Mermaids (apologies forgot her name) recall a heartbreaking!!!!! tale of how their Dr wanted to list them as male and how this is an example of discrimination. Surly for purely scientific/medical reasons they would need to be documented as male for their own health (i.e prostate checks, etc).
I really don't see any discrimination re Trans in the UK (except for the usual small amount of hateful people we all encounter). If they want to see real discrimination try living as a Muslim at moment, or a poor single mother on benefits, or disabled, or anti-Semitism or - well I could go about the many marginalised people in the UK who really do suffer Discrimination.

According to Maria Miller trans people are the most oppressed. Ok.

I'm unsurprised by Maria Miller's stance, she never did give much of a toss about women. Plus ça change...

Maria Miller - should be looking at real Discrimination.
Trans is really a mentally ill/unhealthy condition - but mental health funds are being cut rather than being increased, so in her own view I guess her party is Transphobic!!
I guess it's easier to look at a privileged group (mostly white middle aged guys with a career behind them) who are able to make a lot of noise than the downtrodden who don't have the energy or resources to fight their corner.
Just reached Peak Trans.

Nope, gender dysphoria isn't anything to do with mental health. Again, according to mm.

As someone who registers people at a GP surgery I can tell you that the option of Mx has recently been added, under the heading 'gender' not 'sex'.

Last year, before this was added I did the admin process of changing a young man's registration details from male to female. It's a very simple process, can be done on just the say so of the patient and the GP and there is no hormone treatment or surgery necessary to make the change. It's not a legal standpoint but I imagine it's necessary if someone wants that official certificate.

It's up to the patient to ensure that they get the correct health checks like smears, breast exams and prostate tests as and when.

The day I tried to get a trans woman an appointment at a breast clinic was a fun one . Although medically male, she had hormonally induced breasts and a family history of breast cancer. There is a men's breast clinic but she didn't want to go there and computer said no when I tried to book her into the women's clinic.

Anyway, these are just the facts but having followed this subject for several months on MN I might have a deeper discussion with the GP concerned the next time a person requests a change in registration gender (especially if they are under 18 as the young person I mentioned earlier was) although it won't be up to me ultimately.

I know, right - no mental health issues here people - look away and change any rational, logical thinking you have to pander to a fragile/damaged person.

But seeing as suicide is just a prevalent after transition than before it would be kinder to be scientific and explore the real issues these people have - this I feel is real compassion.

As an Aside: I feel men who crossdress or are drag queens shouldn't be lumped under the trans umbrella as they have a healthier view that they really are males just playing with gender sterotypes (even if it is in a misogynist way); and I don't necessarily think this is mental illness.

"tsonlyme" the Mx I feel is a good option - as it alerts the Dr that the person wishes to be referred to as female - but does have male physiology and the person isn't put off going to the Drs and everyone is respected. Learnt something new as I didn't realise that surgeries had this option - thanks.