General Trans thread part 2

[ChiefClerkDrumknott]

Following on from this one General Trans thread
Because I'm not Elsa and can't let it go

Even a quick read of this thread suggest there is a lot of anger. ..
Some examples...

You don't need examples. I told you that we are angry

This "debate" between radical feminism and the trans community is being seen by mainstream as a particularly nasty fight with some issues, risks and fears (on both sides) being deliberately exaggerated.

And who do you think started the fight? I think you'll find some rad fem fears stem from being threatened with death and rape when they bring up objections to some of these 'issues' you glibly dismiss. Do you not think that's an understandable reaction? By the way, have you popped over to Twitter or Tumblr yet to plead with 'TERF' killers to be less aggressive?

As mentioned earlier, I may be completely wrong. Perhaps the best solution is to get even angrier, even more offensive and aggressive...

You know what, as I said we are angry and we are 'aggressive', if you term defending women's rights vocally and loudly and consistently aggressive

a) gender is a spectrum
b) there is such as thing as being the 'opposite' gender to your physical body

how can something on a spectrum have an opposite?

Well, exactly. When it comes to this, I am at a non-binary point on the "getting it" spectrum

freshwater there's nothing to get really. It's basically just a load of made up shit.

It suddenly struck me that people who are telling us that David won't be safe in male prison are telling us exactly how dangerous they know men to be.

Same as when people tell women that they should take evasive action to stop men raping them, it's just an acknowledgement that they know that men are dangerous and can't be trusted.

Sad really, it's those types of people that say that feminists hate men. #NotBuyingIt

I found this blogpost tonight by a transwoman which I thought was both refreshingly eloquent and very compassionate in both directions, about why it is sometimes inappropriate for transpeople to be in women's spaces, and ALWAYS inappropriate to demand to be in them.

www.femininebyte.org/sapphos_party/m2cfspeaks.htm

"Well, let’s be clear on one thing from the start. As M to F transsexuals, we can never be real women. However distasteful we may find it, and however hard some transsexuals may argue against it, the inescapable fact is that we’ve grown up with gender privilege. We’ve been taught to compete, take power and demand what should be ours."

quod Thanks for the link. . Powerful words!

Miranda Yardley is also fab.

I agree.

The more I think about it the less sense it all makes.

Gender is nonbinary, gender is a spectrum.

But transwomen want everyone to respect their gender identities AS WOMEN.

Eh?

I reached peak trans some time ago. I think it was the cotton ceiling thing that finally did it for me.

I want MTT not to be discriminated against, or face violence or any other problems. But not at the expense of women.

Just read some really funny sad news. Popular transgender celebrity Bruce Caitlyn Jenner has cancelled her public speaking tour due to poor ticket sales scheduling conflicts.
Such a shame. Poor Caitlyn.

Speaking of Caitlyn, she just grassed herself up in an interview in the Advocate magazine. Apparently she now understands there's more to being a woman than clothes and makeup, so she's 'reading up on it' to learn.So someone who claims they've always been a woman now has to read up about how to be a woman? Doesn't add up.
#Germaine was right.

No no kids grow out of it, the trans said so, it didn't happen to them, so is a fact

i keep going round in circles trying to square this circle.
Trying to be a good inclusive person, are trans women in changing rooms the same to me as seeing a gay couple snogging on the street is to another person-who doesn't like it.

I think it would be Passive except changing rooms are segregated. Someone who had vehemently campaigned for unisex changing rooms, I can see the argument. Equality, innit?

However, acknowledging that changing rooms are private places, that some people have had issues with male violence, that safety is a concern and then making an exception that benefits trans women over women is wrong.

And actually changing rooms aren't my main issue. My main issue is places that people have no choice but to use like homeless shelters, DV services, rape crisis, medical services, prisons. My FB friends are fond of the 'I don't care who shares a toilet with me' memes. I feel they might be less enamored sharing a cell with a person with a penis. Who might have been convicted of rape.

Lisa's argument is perfectly reasonable. She is arguing that children shouldn't be given hormone treatment.The trans woman can't handle it so resorts to saying how "upsetting" it is and blocks her. Infantile and stupid.

And laughing gnome tries to equate drugs that will make the person infertile for their whole life to treatment for any other illness.
The only other treatment with such drastic side effects that i can compare to this is chemo for cancer, something that will kill you

No passive, because people snogging in the street has no consequence for you

Whereas men in women's changing rooms does have consequences for girls and women, in terms of privacy, boundaries and danger

I was thinking about the drugs in the context of drugs for ADHD. Would I give my child Ritalin without questioning and trying everything else and changing her environment and trying to make sure school and home fit around her? No, I wouldn't. I would try everything else before I even considered drugs. And Ritalin wouldn't permanently change her body and possibly make her infertile.

How on earth does that trans person talking with Lisa, think being trans is a MEDICAL condition???

The body is totally healthy

Gender dysphoria is in the DSM. Mental health issues are medical issues. However, it is the insistence that the 'treatment' for this is to change the body that is worrying. Particularly in children.

There are plenty of body dysmorphic disorders but they aren't generally treated by changing the body to match the disorder. CBT and SSRIs are generally the treatment for these. Not hormones and surgery.

Just wanted to say, how good it is to see that more females are becoming aware of our rights being eroded and to have safe place being challenged on a daily basis.