General Trans thread part 2

[ChiefClerkDrumknott]

Following on from this one General Trans thread
Because I'm not Elsa and can't let it go

Even a quick read of this thread suggest there is a lot of anger. ..
Some examples...

You don't need examples. I told you that we are angry

This "debate" between radical feminism and the trans community is being seen by mainstream as a particularly nasty fight with some issues, risks and fears (on both sides) being deliberately exaggerated.

And who do you think started the fight? I think you'll find some rad fem fears stem from being threatened with death and rape when they bring up objections to some of these 'issues' you glibly dismiss. Do you not think that's an understandable reaction? By the way, have you popped over to Twitter or Tumblr yet to plead with 'TERF' killers to be less aggressive?

As mentioned earlier, I may be completely wrong. Perhaps the best solution is to get even angrier, even more offensive and aggressive...

You know what, as I said we are angry and we are 'aggressive', if you term defending women's rights vocally and loudly and consistently aggressive

I've engaged in a Facebook discussion under my real name! I'm being gentle and reasonable as 1-you catch more flies with honey and 2- I only saw the post because a friend liked the post and obviously anyone can see my posts. My posts have a few likes and agrees but also a few disagreements, have just had the 'trans people are more oppressed than cis women because suicide' and 'circumcision is like fgm'

Hello ripple, I will admit to having similar fears to yourself about the youth of today. It seems there is this incessant need to label yourself these days. Whereas when I was young, you were who you were (predjudiced arseholes aside). I spent my teen years looking like a boy, was not feminine in the slightest. I do wonder if today someone would have tried to say I was 'trans.'

Anyway, thank you for your thoughts. It's nice to have a different take on the matter and always nice to engage in a dialogue.

Thanks riples - great some good questioning thoughts - I hope they will spread in the trans/cross dressing community and will be heard. I personally do not have an issue with toilets or spaces with cubicals - for me its open plan changing rooms - our swimming pool only has 1family cubical and I want my 11 year old daughter to be able to change without the thought a full functioning man could be in there changing with her. Also rape centers and prisons. I am also starting to worry about how medical statistics are going to be affected both in the provision of service and drug results as men and women have different reaction - can I say I am worried for outcomes for both men and women. Also in sex protected jobs in particular personal care for disabled and or vulnerable people.

Blimey, Obsidian, well done and good luck!

It's not a very popular Facebook page so not much traffic

Did anyone see the Brighton College news about allowing gender dysphoric pupils to choose whether they wear a skirt or trousers?

On the face of it very sensible, albeit this option should be available to all students regardless of whether they are gender dysphoric or not.

However, as a boarding school, how are they going to deal with choosing a boarding house for transitioning students? Are girls now allowed to join the First XI if they feel they are men?

There should be no gender restrictions on uniform. This isn't much of a step forward.

I saw that rubybleu.

Although my first thought was "I wonder how many times over the years girls have asked to be allowed to wear trousers and refused."

I wonder.

You can wear trousers if you feel like a boy and skirts if you feel like a girl...not really progressive.

Yeah exactly. The way I read the article, girls aren't allowed to wear trousers unless they think they're men. So basically a step backwards.

My daughter was aloud to wear trousers at school and did from nursery to yr 5. Before the summer they then changed the rules to you could only wear trousers if you had religious reasons.

She is very active and enjoys playing football doing cartwheels ect but now they have to change into shorts if they want to do those things so they don't expose themselves. Which seems ridiculous.

Did they give a reason for the rule change fasting?

Just that they thought it looks smarter for girls all to be wearing the same and to have a clear uniform. It just seems very backwards plus you always here about girls not being as active things like this really don't help as who is going to waste their breaks getting changed? Also I don't understand the whole modesty thing they are 11 at the oldest it seems a bit odd. As far as I remember when I was that age girls did cartwheels and no one mentioned the fact you could see their underwear.

The school was taken over by a church group so is now an academy.

Given that trousers have been acceptable clothing for women for, ooh, a century I do wish there could be some legal challenge that sets the precedent that requiring women or girls to wear skirts not trousers is sex discrimination.

Shouldn't the equalities act cover this?

When I was in secondary school we fought to be aloud to wear trousers mainly because our head teacher used to make us all kneel in a line to check our skirts where long enough. Giving the reasons what you have stated and in the end we won. Sadly I went past that school a few years later and they had changed the uniform to a nasty looking skirt so seems our win was short lived sadly.

I would say that these days women tend to wear trousers more than skirts (just a general observation may not be the case everywhere) so I find it strange that schools seem to still be stuck in the past on this one. It really should be covered.

I think whatever is in the uniform should be allowed to be worn by all. Including boys allowed to wear skirts if skirts are part of the accepted uniform. To tell girls they must wear skirts but have to change if they want to play for modesty reasons is sex discrimination. I thought that was illegal.

I would be furious about that, Fast and I think I would talk to the head. All children should be able to wear all permitted uniform. That is the only way it makes sense.

Not sure if this off topic, but ages ago I wrote Caroline Dineage MP at Ministry of Justice about the Transgender Prisoners review. I had concerns that the interests of female prisoners were not adequately represented in the terms of reference of the review. Anyway, I now have a reply which I wanted to share here:

"Thank you for your email to Caroline Dinenage MP, raising the concern about the implications of decisions to transfer transgender prisoners to the female estate. I have been asked to reply on her behalf.
I am very grateful to you for raising this issue and I hope you can be reassured that the review seeks to ensure that the wellbeing of all prisoners is safeguarded. Although not expressly mentioned in the terms of reference, we have explicitly noted "Safety: Female Prisoners" as one of the headings on which we will be seeking views.
Among other prisoner groups, we will be directly contacting organisations working with women in prison, some of whom are members of the Advisory Board for Female Offenders which is chaired by the Minister.
We welcome comments from all interested parties, so If you would like to contribute to the review, please email George Barrow who is the official coordinating the review within the Ministry of Justice at [email protected] and we will ensure your name is added to the mailing group. Please feel free to share with anyone who might want to register their interest and be kept abreast of developments."

I am definitely going to email George Barrow and register my interest. Anyone who is also concerned, either about the specific issue of women's prisons or about self-declaration principle of legal sex, might want to do the same.

Great - well done! Emailing George Barrow too.

I think there is a .uk missing from the end of the email address. My first attempt bounced as undeliverable. Second attempt with .uk seems to have gone through OK.

Brilliant, I'll email him too. Thank you.

Thanks for that! Must confess, the emailing is on my 'to do' list for tomorrow, so I hadn't tested the email, but a .uk suffix makes sense.

Hi everyone, I have been reading these threads with great interest (still working my way through the first one). I came across this in the news about transgender women competing in sports and wondered what everyone's thoughts were.

Personally, I feel that it puts women at serious disadvantage. Additionally, it ignores the many physical and social advantages that men have and how this impacts on performance.

Unfortunately, I am not sure there is anyway to express disagreement with this decision.

www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/01/22/transgender-people-will-be-allowed-to-compete-in-the-olympics-without-surgery/

This is a very good commentary on the sport question (albeit from the US where they have 'Title IX')
culturallyboundgender.wordpress.com/2014/06/19/all-the-things-you-cant-deny-title-ix-trans-women-and-the-reality-of-neutrality/

There will be little point women trainng professionally for sport above loval lelevelsvel fairly rapidly as most national and international competition s will be dominated by trans - also therfore alot of womens funding will be going to trans.