Islamaphobia?

[Onnedheil]

So, as feminists, women, fighting against patriarchy, against rape culture against male violence to women. My question is this.

Are we suddenly now supposed to be supporting a religion that is an actual rape culture, Openly accepted paedophilia, actual supremacy of toxic masculinity an actual patriarchy Which is responsible for female genital mutilation , based on a the word of a paedophile warmonger who propagates a monotheist singular God who is male .

And when Anyone, speaks out about these things We're labelled as a racist and as islamaphobe and told to silence our voice for the religion of peace?

Have I ended up in the twilight zone or something?

"Except when they were Jews.

O-kayyyy."
No. Except when they identify themselves as "atheist Jews" as I said very clearly in my post.

@almondpudding: They do? Well, then I just have to work up the moral backbone to join! (I am not as good a person as I'd like to be. Still not vegan, for example.)

Is it just me or does it look like this thread got derailed? As interesting as the possibility of being an atheist Jew is, it doesn't have much to do with Islamophobia, does it?

Sorry, VV, I think that was my fault.

I will be gooder x100

......but before I reform, my brother is a atheist Friend. There seems to be no conflict at all. Go for it!

Interesting point made earlier by a friend:

We're not allowed to name the perpetrators of male violence, because NAMALT, but it seems fine and dandy to blame ALL muslims for the actions of a few.

The other point made was that the main group that gets the brunt of Islamophobia is women, mostly because idiots believe they are the more visible symbol of Islamic belief due to their being veiled. Little realising that there are other reasons women might be wearing the same headgear. The same idiots tend to also assume that all men with dark skin are muslim and treat them accordingly, however, that's less Islamophobia and more racism.

"I would feel that I had not encouraged their critical thinking enough. But it would of course be their choice."

That is the best post I have read on the internet today.

My atheist Jewish friend isn't a Zionist. Some of her family are. On the cutting bits of children, she did invite me to her son's bris but was understanding when I declined.

What on earth do you mean,Dione?

Since islam nicked the koran from the torah, it's no great surprise that it treats women with the same contempt that judaism does. Avoid all religion, it's the only way to save your soul.

Oh, and by the way, "islamaphobia" is just a made up word to allow muslims to fend off criticism of their particular mental disorder. christians are crucifying themselves for not thinking of it first.

OP:

Everything you have posted about Islam in your opening statement is factually incorrect. From what you have mentioned later on in your posts, your understanding of Islam is based on Ayan Hirsi's understanding of Islam. The majority of non-Muslim academics and theologians have not understood Islam to be the way you have portrayed it.

Moving on however, Islam is very open to criticism and debate, so to somehow suggest that you can't speak openly about what you have mentioned, is simply ludicrous. If some Muslims are offended by you calling their beloved prophet a paedophile for example, maybe you need to explore why? What does Muhammad the prophet mean to Muslims? Why is he so important to them?

What is worrying is when criticism of the Islamic faith turns into criticism of Muslims, the humans who choose to follow the faith. You also have to understand that there is huge diversify within Muslims. So where there is a small minority that may believe that men are the leaders of the family, these minority are also ignoring that the prophet himself used to work for his wife for example, and is a very famous that he told the men that the best of you in the eyes of the good, is the one who is best to his family.

The negative picture that Ayan Hirsi portrays and is depicted in this thread of the Prophet Muhammad and Islam is certainly not what non-Muslim theologians, academics and experts have understood and written about Islam. Ayan Hirsi and her friends are certainly the minority, and although I can see how extremely damaging and incorrect her narrative is, she has the right to voice her opinion.

Yep. Normal person of faith behaviour."No, I don't recognise any of the bad things about my faith- that's not the real faith. Whi? people doing those things in the name of the faith? Oh yes, them. No, they aren't real Christians/Muskims/Jews/Dadfodilsorhaippers! Whatever makes you think they are?" It's all just weasel words"

cba reading the thread but some Christians definitely practice fgm.

yes, Islam is patriarchal but women had rights in Islam before they did in non-Muslim societies.

not convinced that Islam is a rape culture - forced marriages are rape but are they Islamic? just because some of the people doing these things are Muslims doesn't mean it grows from the religion.

accepted paedophilia? young wives, you mean? again, culture not religion.
or do you mean the bad behaviour of uk paedophiles? criminality, not Islam.

"a paedophile warmonger who propagates a monotheist singular God who is male" The Prophet? interesting perspective you have there. what if there is only one God?

Please do speak out - against injustice wherever you find it. you will find in the Qur'an the injunction
"O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor...[Sûrah al-Nisâ’: 135] quoted from Islam Today. I'm not a Muslim and I don't read Arabic, so I can't be more accurate, sorry.

"So where there is a small minority that may believe that men are the leaders of the family, these minority are also ignoring that the prophet himself used to work for his wife for example, and is a very famous that he told the men that the best of you in the eyes of the good, is the one who is best to his family"

Which just illustrates my point: religion is a set of man made rules and regulations which can be interpreted any which way by the people who follow it. But which group are we to believe? Those who killed people in Paris certainly thought they were following Islam yet we, non followers, are supposed to instantly recognise that no that's not real Islam?

The same goes for Christianity. If some guy is telling me that women shouldn't be leaders because Paul said so I'm gonna conclude that Christianity is a pile of sexist crap. The only difference is that, having been brought up with Christianity, I know enough (and feel comfortable enough) to argue that this is a misinterpretation. With Islam I don't so I can only judge it based on the actions of its followers.

And it's not "ludicrous" to feel that we are unable to critique it. Even at DS's school it is taught that Islam is a feminist religion of peace and whilst I agree with their aims (to dampen prejudice I assume) he does feel that he is not allowed to speak up against this view because one has to "respectful" of other faiths. I don't think that's critical thinking at all. Atheists have their views picked apart all the time so why should religion be exempt?

"With Islam I don't so I can only judge it based on the actions of its followers." Sorry to quote self bad protocol, but I just wanted to add that I do think that the vast majority of non Muslim British people are savvy enough to know that the evil actions of a few extremists get far more attention in the media than your regular everyday Muslim who is just getting on with life. We're not stupid.

Agree with theydontknow - how do the vast majority of Muslims behave? As homophobic misogynists. Can anyone name a single Muslim man who is an outspoken and tireless advocate for equality?

You don't see the irony in saying if your DC have a different belief to you it is due to their lack of critical thinking Bert?

I must be thick - I don't see the irony in saying that religious belief and critical thinking are incompatible.

It's not like she said "my child chose to support a valid but unproven scientific hypothesis in conflict to an equally valid but unproven hypothesis I support I wou,d question their critical thinking"

I would expect a Christian parent whose child decided to follow another faith or none would feel that they had not made the case for Christiantiy well enough. Is that ironic too?

I'd 'd think I'd failed somewhere in my children's education if they turned out to be UKIP supporters, or MRA or homeopaths too. Is that ironic too?