Islamaphobia?

[Onnedheil]

So, as feminists, women, fighting against patriarchy, against rape culture against male violence to women. My question is this.

Are we suddenly now supposed to be supporting a religion that is an actual rape culture, Openly accepted paedophilia, actual supremacy of toxic masculinity an actual patriarchy Which is responsible for female genital mutilation , based on a the word of a paedophile warmonger who propagates a monotheist singular God who is male .

And when Anyone, speaks out about these things We're labelled as a racist and as islamaphobe and told to silence our voice for the religion of peace?

Have I ended up in the twilight zone or something?

I think altruism only practised by an individual quickly becomes a burden and unsustainable. that's why we have social services and welfare benefits and a national health service that collectively comes together to help people in need. But those three institutions together only cover the minimum physical, but not the visiting the sick or helping the new mother or keeping company with the elderly. And cooperation is good when you have a good chance of reciprocity from the other but sometimes, or even many times, there isn't a chance of reciprocity. Religion gives lots of incentives in that regard, whether it's about 'good karma' or lots of cosmic brownie points in heaven or coming back as a higher caste on the next life. Those are about encouraging the ones who wouldn't be bothered about others needs over their own otherwise.it helps to have a larger number of people all practising altruism so that it doesn't become too great a responsibility on one person alone.

I would like to read more laurie on cooperation and competition and that thing called parochial altruism on the game theory page. I wondered if it took it to be the other way around: that stoking fear of the other group or hyping up their competitiveness level makes a group bond and cooperate together more closely? It's a favoured tactic of right wing leaders the world over whether theists or atheists.

Niminy I was trying to point out that picking apart the ethics of an atheist was as useful as picking holes in those of a theist. I don't presume to know what inner motivations a particular person may have.
You sound very sure of yourself. That must be nice.

When it comes to religion and game theory, I've always found this comic an interesting perspective: www.smbc-comics.com/?id=1899

moonstruck - you might be interested in reading this essay by Pinker and the subsequent commentaries (plus a final reply from Pinker) about whether the theory of group selection (like natural selection operating on a group level) is useful/effective in explaining cultural change and group co-operation/competition - the discussion touches on some interesting ideas. Not sure if it's the sort of thing you had in mind but I find some of the questions you've raised here about religion, community, social control/cohesion interesting.

edge.org/conversation/steven_pinker-the-false-allure-of-group-selection#22475

Thinking about that article has reminded me of another by Pinker that I read a while back, when I was trying to find something accessible but not too basic for a teenager, on the question of morals without religion.

www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/magazine/13Psychology-t.html?_r=2

Christianity is no picnic for women either, but I can think of plenty of Christian countries where women at least have equal rights in law, and can't think of any Muslim ones (Indonesia maybe?) where women do.

Compare third world Muslim countries to third world Christian countries and you'd find they are remarkably similar in terms of misogyny. FGM, for example, is predominantly practiced in Christian countries.

Our view of Muslims and the countries they live in is a caricature. The fact that most people can't think of Muslim countries with equality or can't think of Christian ones without it doesn't really prove that's the case rather than prove it's what we think they are like.

Saudi and Brunei are not third world countries. They are 2 of the richest countries in the world. There is no western European country with the same standard of living which is remotely comparable in lack of women's rights.

No, but then oil rich rulers don't really need to pay too much heed to things like human rights and equality.

"Our view of Muslims and the countries they live in is a caricature."

I do wish people would stop telling "us" what "our" view of Muslims is. We are perfectly capable of having a nuanced view of Islam, of distinguishing between a religion and its followers, of realizing that extremes don't represent the majority or that our view of the islamic world comes through a media filter and even of disagreeing with someone's ideology whilst respecting the person's right to hold it.

This assumption of prejudice is a prejudice in itself.

It's not an assumption of prejudice when that prejudice is there for all to see.