Can we have a general Trans thread?

[Brugmansia]

Sorry for another trans thread and I feel this is a bit of an imposition given I don't post really.

Anyway reading FWR over the past few months has re-radicalised me. I've been reading lots here and wider.

Anyway just now been watching TV and there's been some stuff that's given me the rage but didn't seem to fit in existing threads or it's own thread.

Anyway thing that gave me the rage.
On BBC3 program on transgemder teen's the doctor just said "creating a vagina". Are doctors redefining vagina as pocket rather than a passage? Makes me want to screem.

Also Sarah Ditum being no platformed.

playswell I get if you have to deal with people at work and call them sir/madam/etc but if your just walking past someone when your in public then there really is no need

vestal I get what you mean about calling someone as what they look like even if that's not what they think is correct, that's very fair

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35029928

I caught this interview on the News earlier.

Empress, love the Everyday Feminism post. You've captured the irritating style beautifully, except as a PP said, its way too reasonable for them.

Tara Hudson is saying that being in a male prison will live with them for the rest of their life. I expect the bloke whose teeth Tara knocked out feels that that experience will live with him for the rest of his life.

I would hope that being in prison, full stop, will live with Tara for the rest of her life. Isn't that kind of the point of it?

I expect the bloke whose teeth Tara knocked out feels that that experience will live with him for the rest of his life.

I thought the same thing, every day he brushes his false teeth.

IShoulBeSoLurky exactly! But how Tara feels is more important than how other people feel, clearly, including the women Tara was then locked up with. How they felt was irrelevant, because they are only women.

An amazing sense of entitlement. Tara needs to think very carefully about why they keep violently attacking people instead of complaining when, it seems, much-deserved punishment is handed out

Urgh, Tara Hudson gets on my tits

Tell by looking at her, she should be in a female prison?? What fucking rot. Fake tits and hair extensions aren't the point. YOUR PENIS is the issue love. That, and your history of violence

And what was so traumatic about the male proson?? People shouted at her???

And, what is that stupid voice??

I don't think I've ever heard of a woman head-butting someone's teeth out. I suppose it has probably happened but it's incredibly rare. I'd be so ashamed of myself if I'd behaved like that. It seems Tara doesn't though.

Doesn't feel ashamed I mean

Now i am really really worried, are we the bad people if we agree with THAT woman?

Im trying to be objective here but there have been a variety of transitioning/personal identity stories in the news this year that have strongly made me question my general unquestioning trans ally status.

You have this trans woman who identifies rather specifically as a six year old girl.... perhaps age dysphoria is a thing? Could you support this individual joining the Brownies or something since that's how she identifies?
gendertrender.wordpress.com/2015/11/29/transwoman-stefonknee-wolscht-lives-life-as-a-six-year-old-girl/

Then theres Rachael Dolezal who could be described as trans racial, and certainly lived as a black woman, socially presenting as her chosen identity in much the same way as trans individuals present as their chosen gender identity

Then theres Chloe Jennings White www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/10185741/Woman-wants-to-be-disabled-due-to-rare-condition.html
who would like to be paralysed/lose the use of her legs due to a dysphoric condition, and often choses to present as disabled in wheelchair or leg braces although still undertakes physical sports eg skiing
not mentioned is the fact that while this lady cannot obtain the medical treatment she desires to align her body with the disability she identifies with, she is actually a trans woman e.g. has undergone gender reassignment already to treat her dysphoria due to her gender

So what is the difference between these forms of dysphoria/disconnect between the individuals physical body and their self image? Why are some of them (gender dysphoria) acceptable in society and others (age, racial, disability dysphoria) might cause people to pause and question the individuals motivation or mental health?

Have no answers but am finding these threads an education

Siwi wrote - "Could someone explain the difference between sex and gender, please?"

Gender is particularly confusing to many people because it can mean any of at least 3 completely different things:

1. Gender role
   is the gender-critical feminist concept that gender is a set of socially-constructed rules that have oppressed women for thousands of years. Boys and men are expected to behave in certain stereotypical ways (masculinity). Girls and women are expected to behave in other stereotypical ways (femininity, usually with lower social status). e.g. women must be sexually modest, girls like pink. It could be summed up as "expected behaviour that is determined by biological sex". So, people don't "have" a gender, but they are expected to conform to a gender role, controlled by a set of gender rules.

2. Gender identity
   is the feeling of how closely your mind matches the biological sex of your body. Trans people feel that their mind does not match their body and so they feel their mind must match the body of the opposite biological sex. It's often described as "being a woman trapped in a man's body". Some transwomen (males) have provided their sperm to create their children, while "feeling like a woman". There are similar examples of transmen (females) who have been pregnant and given birth to their children, while "feeling like a man". Most trans people and their supporters seem to assume that gender identity is something that everyone has, but this is not supported by survey data.

3. Biological sex
   Gender is also a "polite" word for biological sex, often used to avoid supposedly shameful, immoral, "dirty" or disgusting things associated with the word "sex". It seems to have come from politically and morally conservative christians of the American Bible Belt). This is what gender usually means when it appears on official forms. Decades ago, in the UK, the forms you would fill in for e.g. bank accounts or passports, would ask for your "sex" not "gender".

Gender role, as used by gender-critical feminists, is consistent with biological sex being lifelong from birth and unchangeable. To these feminists, gender (role) is a social construct that should be removed to liberate women from patriarchal oppression.

The gender identity of trans people has biological sex as a social construct which can be changed by the individual person, if desired.
Dominant opinions in the political activism of transgenderism currently include:
(1) if a person feels that their mind does not match their biological sex, then surgery will change their biological sex.
(2) gender (identity) is lifelong from birth and unchangeable.

I think the concepts of gender role and gender identity are incompatible. This incompatibilty is the cause of many of the arguments between gender-critical feminists (who want liberation from oppressive gender roles) and trans people (who need gender roles because gender roles are how a trans person discovers their mind/body mismatch).

You have this trans woman who identifies rather specifically as a six year old girl.... perhaps age dysphoria is a thing? Could you support this individual joining the Brownies or something since that's how she identifies?

I cannot take this person seriously.

There probably are people who, due to trauma in their childhood, never managed to really grow up past a certain stage, and there are adults who miss the carefreeness of childhood (I do, too), but considering that this individual had sex with his "adoptive daddy" ... I consider him a disgusting autopedophile.

Either he's a six year old, or he is not. If he really had gotten stuck in the development stage of a six year old, he would not want to have sex. (And he would also not have married an adult woman and fathered children before deciding he is six years old)

The 6 year old girl thing is just horrible, perverted. I can't believe he's willing to admit to it on the Internet. I feel so sorry for his children

Stefonknee s what is known as a "little", imagine grown men in nappies, cots and sucking dummies is one extreme to the school girl slut look is another, they argue that their daddies or mommies are not pedophiles, and if they are only role playing i can see that, but once your little has come out and said "this isn't role play this is what i really am" either you believe them and having sex makes you a pedo or you don't believe them, and classify them the same as people who believe they are dogs, for lack of a better example.

exactly vestal and what, each of these cases brings something new to the idea of transition/personal identity to me that makes me question the validity of accepting at face value peoples sincerely held identities and desires to transition

'Steffonknee' - autogynopaedophile? is there a word? I wouldn't want him round my children reading what hes posted, and struggle to see anything beyond a man getting his jollies in a very disturbing way

Rachel Dolezal - troubled fantasist? escapist? fantasies of persecution, public role taking on the mantle of disadvantaged group, possible fraud/secondary gain, possibly self created racial incidents to garner attention?

Chloe Jennings White - it was uncritically accepted that transitioning to a woman was right and appropriate for her and yet the choice to alter an able body to a disabled one is not clearly acceptable to either society and the medical profession - where does surgery to align someones body to their mental image stop being acceptable

I also find it interesting that with Rachel dolezal, there were lots of articles in the mainstream media which investigated her past to try and find out what might have motivated her to pretend to be black. With transgender people the media seems to accept it and not question what might have made someone believe they are the opposite sex.

Alltouched, you know, ‘transphobic’ is a word thrown about a bit too freely on here. Disagree all you like, but you won’t find too many of us with a hatred or fear of trans people.

Homophobes beat gay people. To death, sometimes. They hate them, call them disgusting, don’t want them near their children. Xenophobes feel the same about different races. Please do not imply that I am a violent bigot who is disgusted by Trans people and wants to see them hurt or killed. Because when you refer to me as a transphobe that is exactly what you are doing.

Trans people get beaten, they get abused, marginalised. By (male) transphobes , not by me.

Sometimes I’m not very subtle. Rude? I’ll take that, But mostly when I read about born women being referred to as ‘fish’.

Or when the US high fives itself for having a woman amongst their top paid CEOs. Who is actually a transwoman, presumably going home and fucking his wife and fathering his kids.

Or when I see a lauded film depicting two women fighting, and I feel like I’m the only one who sees that one (bigger, stronger)of them is a man, and the other a (smaller weaker) woman (or as they say in the film ‘fish’.)Apparently that is groundbreaking and important and not male on female violence.

I get rude when I hear about Canada seeking to censor the word ‘woman’ from its maternity literature. Erasing it alltogether because it is ‘cisexist.’

I get rude when the wishes of schoolgirls not to have a person with a penis get naked in the changerooms with them are dismissed. Even after they suggest a compromise.

And I get a bit more than rude when someone who lived 60 odd years of their life as a fully functioning rich white man gets 'Woman of the Year', and picks and chooses when to be Caitlyn and when to be Bruce.

I get scared when I realise that legally changing your sex means that statistics will now show (men) transmen committing crimes (like rapes, assault, robbery and other violent crimes), but women committing them. Women who were born with a penis, balls and a prostate.

I see pictures like this one and want to scream “Enough!!” That does not make me a transphobe. Honestly, look at the picture. What do you see? Honestly.

Siwi, I still get muddled sometimes with sex / gender.

As a starting point, I try to think of sex as physical parts of the body you can see/smell/touch. Gender is everything else. Behaviour, expectations, etc.

Applauds don'tcallmecis

Watching bbc news - tara hudson is now fighting for the GRC to become officially obsolete. "They can look on my facebook and see i have been living as a woman".