Can we have a general Trans thread?

[Brugmansia]

Sorry for another trans thread and I feel this is a bit of an imposition given I don't post really.

Anyway reading FWR over the past few months has re-radicalised me. I've been reading lots here and wider.

Anyway just now been watching TV and there's been some stuff that's given me the rage but didn't seem to fit in existing threads or it's own thread.

Anyway thing that gave me the rage.
On BBC3 program on transgemder teen's the doctor just said "creating a vagina". Are doctors redefining vagina as pocket rather than a passage? Makes me want to screem.

Also Sarah Ditum being no platformed.

I'm actually lolling at 'girlcocks'. This is the thread that just keeps on giving .
To be fair about autogynephiles, I wouldn't always think of them as creepy. When I was growing up in the 70's there were a fair few transvestites knocking about, they didn't cause any problems. In fact they were probably a bit pitiful.

Girlcocks are pink, blushing and emotive? Can you say gender stereotypes?

No, but I can say tee hee hee

I guess, the difference is in whether they are 'indulging' in public (and not just in the way of being a euphamism for a crafty wank!) or just sharing their fetishy true self. And the only way to know whether such a person is the bad kind or the relatively harmless kind, is whether it is their own self turning them (fine, if peculiar) on or the upset of others (bad, bad man), which can only really be distinguished 100% with some sort of mind-scope..?

?

fingles because the fetishise women, which is objectification. Its a hideous parody of women. Its all about the makeup and hair and sexy clothes....and aroused penises/ sexual gratification

And our vaginas and uteruses and lived experiences are irrelevant

And in fetishising us, they dehumanise us, which (can) make them dangerous to us (obviously natalt)

It's been linked to cultural appropriation on other threads and cultural appropriation is racism, even if the hipsters doing it think it's flattery. Because it involves reducing entire swathes of the population down to surface, appearance-based nonsense, with no understanding of the lived experience of the people they are parodying.

Mm, but... is an understanding of the lived experience of women relevant to whether someone gets turned on by wearing a bit of makeup and some frilly knickers? It's certainly relevant if you're a male claiming to be a woman. But not all autogynephiles are claiming that, and claiming to actually be a woman isn't a necessary condition for being an autogynephile.

It's not if that's all you're doing. Fill your boots, I say. But it's akin to me wearing frilly knickers once in a while. It's fun, but I don't define anything or anyone based on that. Least of all myself as a woman.

The definition of autogynaphile is a man who is sexually aroused by the thought of himself as a woman

There are of course other men who get turned on by a whole myriad of other things

We definitely do need to be able to talk about autogynephilia. Because righteous trans allies will have a little more trouble pushing that agenda. There aren't many people who won't find the Stefonknees of this world disturbing. I realise there is a clash of rights here, but I'm sorry, I think it's more important for women to have protected spaces than it is to validate people's gender identities. Perhaps nice trans people and their more reasonable allies could have a word with the idiot transactivists who insist on forcing their way into every women's space if they don't like being lumped in with sexual fetishists or want to be seen as their apologists?

venus to be fair, this is exactly what Miranda Yardley has been doing, but she receives masses of abuse for it

No, that is a fair point and Miranda Yardley is a good example of trans people suffering as a result of taking up a position which is in conflict with the sort of idiot transactivist I was referring to. But I guess it has become so polarised because those transactivists have ramped it up and made it either/or and a lot of the more reasonable people have stayed silent (understandably not wanting to receive abuse themselves). The only remedy I can see is that these issues need to be discussed a whole lot more, so those abusive transactivists and their shit stirring allies can't pretend that they're the reasonable ones and people who don't agree with them are transphobes. Because that is how people who don't really understand the issues often perceive it.

Thinking aloud here so apologies if it's a bit disjointed. I'm only familiar with one self-described autogynephile, and I've discussed the whole idea with him because there is something a bit uncomfortable about it. He's well aware that his fantasy is nothing to do with real women. He tends towards the submissive though, and he grew up in a society that insists men must dominate. That seems to be at the root of it in his case. Aaaaand we're back to gender roles being the cause of so much trouble, aren't we? It's not having the physical body of a woman in this case, but rather being forced into a feminine role. Hmmm.

The problem I have with all this is I find it UTTERLY tedious. I have zero interest in mens crises of identity, body dysphoria and sexual deviances. It bores me shitless

But we have no option but to wade in to the middle of it, to protect women's spaces. It makes me very fucking impatient

I know what you mean shortcut it's ridiculous that we've basically been 'sent back to the start' on so many issues with a demand that even the basic term 'female' is being redefined without consultation and we are left fighting shadows to keep the little we've managed to actually achieve.

The intellectual sleight of hand is conflating "transexual" (which is a serious medical condition) with "transgender" (which doesn't really make any sense because gender is non-binary and trans/cis only apply to binaries). This is what the term "trans" (though the has now been dropped) is all about.

Why has the * been dropped? Interesting.

Thats brilliant totalterf, so spot on!!

Apparently, women's changing rooms are no safe spaces, and if we want them to be safe from men, we have to defend them ourselves all the time. Or something. (I also mentioned prisons and shelters, if memory serves, but she didn't respond to that.)

Also, allegedly, all the men in women's clothes I see using the women's toilets are intersex individuals.

(I wrote a mail to the feminist party of my country to ask their opinion on the trans issue, and that was the answer I got. Am rather disappointed. :( )

Is it true that intersex conditions are very common? I thought I would have noticed if there were so many intersex individuals who don't look like on sex or the other convincingly enough to pass.
(The transwomen I have seen certainly weren't suffering from androgen insensitivity, judging from their voices and height)

Which country is that, Vestal?

I've been lurking on this brilliant thread - eye opening! Though feel slightly confused to discover that I apparently agree with both Germaine Greer and Katie Hopkins.

I hear 1 in 4000 or 5000 are born with ambiguous genitalia, Vestal.

Carry on ...

Germany. The feminist party is very small and almost no one even knows that it exists. I had hoped they'd be a bit more focused on, you know, women.

vestal how incredibly disappointing.

It really feels like the men have found a way to completely unravel feminism - it's been terrifyingly easy.

No, intersex conditions are very rare and most trans people do not have an intersex condition - they are definitively male or female.

She has really swallowed the trans propaganda.

@Beaky: The person told me it was one promille, which someone who is better with numbers than I explained is 1 in 1000.

Maybe 1 in 1000 is technically intersex (with only one X chromosome, or XXY or XY but outwardly looking female) but has non-ambigious genitals. Which doesn't really matter unless you do a gene test or at least ultrasound scan of the internal organs.

I am rather annoyed with the fact that intersex people are dragged into this, as if their existence was a justification for putting completely unambigious XY males into women's prisons.

As a matter of fact, I never even heard anything about an intersex individual complaining about the prison they were put into. Maybe because most of them are assigned female at birth, and the extra bits are just chopped off, and they then get female socialisation and just stay out of prison.