Can we have a general Trans thread?

[Brugmansia]

Sorry for another trans thread and I feel this is a bit of an imposition given I don't post really.

Anyway reading FWR over the past few months has re-radicalised me. I've been reading lots here and wider.

Anyway just now been watching TV and there's been some stuff that's given me the rage but didn't seem to fit in existing threads or it's own thread.

Anyway thing that gave me the rage.
On BBC3 program on transgemder teen's the doctor just said "creating a vagina". Are doctors redefining vagina as pocket rather than a passage? Makes me want to screem.

Also Sarah Ditum being no platformed.

Through issue of protecting vulnerable prisoners (from themselves and other prisoners) is really at risk of being covered over, when it's being made all about trans issues. How on earth that prisoner was able to harm himself like that is really concerning.

On the AA thread I've just seen mention of Cis meaning that you're OK with society perceiving you as female/male and not wanting to change it. So much unpacking to do on that one sentence. I don't really do gender critical on FB (ashamedly many of my friends are super liberal choicy feminists) but... Woah. Completely bypassing the fact that so many born as/live as women strive their whole lives to free themselves of the constraints of gender. Since I haven't cut my breasts off, I must be a-ok with my position.

There are some good comments about the devaluing of 'mothering' and the erasure of women's experiences. Nothing on this planet is going to get me to replace breastfeeding with 'chest feeding' though.

Miranda yardley's been retweetinf a discussion where tw were basically saying "nice try with the agender/non gender binary stuff you TERFS - you are cis!"

So much for everyone should get to choose their gender.

fem - yes, men can be women even if they still have beards and penises but women are cis scum unless we cut our tits off and nothing we say about feeling like a "person" will be listened to.

Of course, they have to take this stance (which makes no sense) because their argument is a house of cards.

fem - yes, men can be women even if they still have beards and penises but women are cis scum unless we cut our tits off and nothing we say about feeling like a "person" will be listened to.

Apparently so.

I agree with Hermione's analysis, which sets out the issues more clearly than I managed.

HermioneWeasley wrote - "That sounds like extreme self harm to me. - surely more relevant to debate as part of the issue of mental health, and self harm in prisons rather than "should men be inprisoned with women?". The gender stuff seems a total red herring."

Discussion of transgender and mental illness is a double-edged sword for transactivists, who are the people controlling the current political debate.

Transgenderism (transgender political activism) has to tread a fine line on any link between being transgender and what is happening in a trans persons mind. Transgenderism is helped by promoting awareness of the mental distress of individual transwomen, so it promotes discussion of gender-neutral symptoms such as depression and self-harm. Transgenderism is harmed by any discussion of any possibility that the whole concept of being transgender might be a mental illness. Transgenderism vigorously opposes discussion about this.

Disclaimer: I'm NOT saying being transgender is a mental illness.

I'm of the opinion that is a form of mental illness, as it is based on a delusion. What does interest me is how discussion can get censored so quickly. Why?
It does indicate a conspiracy of some sort.
Based on what I've read on a gay forum, there are a few theories.
a) it's down to the medical and pharmaceutical industry, creating a need for a lifelong hormone regime. I suppose this would be more relevant in America.
b) a conservative conspiracy to eliminate a generation of gay men and women, by brainwashing them into believing they are transgender.
c) This one is a bit sketchy, but in the 70's there was an attempt by the PIE to infiltrate and take over gay activist groups. They see a link to the autogynephile group.

noeffingidea Is the forum you refer to DL? I've been on there a few times and there does seem to be a similar opinion to the one on this thread. They also hate the Social Justice Warriors types (who are invariably Lib Fems) that seem to be taking over university campuses in the US and the UK.

chiefclerk yes, that's it. I wouldn't link it on here because it's primarily for gay men and I respect that. It's a useful source of information though.
There's also a subreddit (on reddit.com) called gendercritical feminism, if anyone's interested.

Yes I know what you mean re the main focus of the forum. Plus it can be pretty riské in places! It's good to see a few pockets of gender critical thinking popping up around the place, though. It's interesting to see that a forum primarily for mothers and one primarily for gay men have a similar take on things!

I'll check out that sub reddit, thanks

Agree that women face different issues and risks after being raped than a male does, was just thinking how it could work the other way, where a rapist is kind of rewarded for not having the pregnancy risk.

I'd loathe to reward a rapist as much as any feminist, but rapists are already rewarded for confessing, which I suppose we should keep, and also for preying on vulnerable women who don't put up a fight because they're too frightened, which I think should be scrapped.

So, we already do that sort of thing. We reward rapists for not killing their victims, too, so factoring pregnancy risk in wouldn't be introducing something that was never done before.

noeffingidea Thanks for telling me about that sub reddit. Just fell in love with the peak trans sticky....

Here's the judgment of the case that led to where we are now. It's long, but interesting.

hudoc.echr.coe.int/eng?i=001-60596

"I'm NOT saying being transgender is a mental illness."

Nobody is, because that suggests it

"I'm NOT saying being transgender is a mental illness."

Nobody is, because 'illness' suggests it has an external cause and can be "cured"/corrected.

Brain's perception conflicting with the physical realities of the body in trans people sounds more like a disorder.

My dh is a big reddit fan and keeps telling me to take a look, is the subreddit worth reading then?

Had a quick read last night. I can't figure out the layout of reddit, its so confusing.

Thats interesting cote (though i may have the complete wrong end of the stick!!) as that could mean TGism ends up classed more as a neurodivergence, especially in those who dont have body dysmorphia? Which is extra interesting given the alleged propensity of TGism in ASCs that was mentioned elsewhere recently.
Everyday feminism wouldnt be happy with that though, if they lost one of their classes of special-snowflake-ism

It is shit for usability. Easiest way, if you're looking for something specific, is to use the search function at the right of the page. Find the sub you're interested in from the list, (subscribe if you want it to appear on your 'front page' which is like active convos) and click on it. Then you have a list of threads basically. If you click on the title of a thread you're interested in, it will either take you to someone's post, or it will take you straight to the link. If you want to go straight to the comments, don't click on the thread title, click on the word 'comments' beneath it.

For some reason my tablet isn't allowing me to post a link.
Type in reddit.com/r/ followed by gendercriticalfeminism and bookmark.

Just to add, this subreddit is quite easy to read because it isn't too crowded. Remember to click on 'new' at the top if you want to just read new posts. The sticky is already arranged that way.

"cote... that could mean TGism ends up classed more as a neurodivergence, especially in those who dont have body dysmorphia?"

World Health Organisation currently classifies trans* under Mental And Behavioural Disorders:

Chapter V - Mental and behavioural disorders (F00-F99)

F60-F69 Disorders of adult personality and behaviour

.... F64 Gender identity disorders

............... F64.0 Transsexualism
A desire to live and be accepted as a member of the opposite sex, usually accompanied by a sense of discomfort with, or inappropriateness of, one's anatomic sex, and a wish to have surgery and hormonal treatment to make one's body as congruent as possible with one's preferred sex.

................ F64.1 Dual-role transvestism
The wearing of clothes of the opposite sex for part of the individual's existence in order to enjoy the temporary experience of membership of the opposite sex, but without any desire for a more permanent sex change or associated surgical reassignment, and without sexual excitement accompanying the cross-dressing.
Gender identity disorder of adolescence or adulthood, nontranssexual type
Excl.: fetishistic transvestism (F65.1)

............... F64.2 Gender identity disorder of childhood
A disorder, usually first manifest during early childhood (and always well before puberty), characterized by a persistent and intense distress about assigned sex, together with a desire to be (or insistence that one is) of the other sex. There is a persistent preoccupation with the dress and activities of the opposite sex and repudiation of the individual's own sex. The diagnosis requires a profound disturbance of the normal gender identity; mere tomboyishness in girls or girlish behaviour in boys is not sufficient. Gender identity disorders in individuals who have reached or are entering puberty should not be classified here but in F66.-.
Excl.: egodystonic sexual orientation (F66.1), sexual maturation disorder (F66.0)

................ F64.8 Other gender identity disorders

................. F64.9 Gender identity disorder, unspecified.
Gender-role disorder NOS

Gender Critical Reddit

Hopefully link works.

The peak trans thread covers a lot of worries I have and has been interesting to read.

Ukmm you mean there's a bit of reddit that doesn't hate women!?