Can we have a general Trans thread?

[Brugmansia]

Sorry for another trans thread and I feel this is a bit of an imposition given I don't post really.

Anyway reading FWR over the past few months has re-radicalised me. I've been reading lots here and wider.

Anyway just now been watching TV and there's been some stuff that's given me the rage but didn't seem to fit in existing threads or it's own thread.

Anyway thing that gave me the rage.
On BBC3 program on transgemder teen's the doctor just said "creating a vagina". Are doctors redefining vagina as pocket rather than a passage? Makes me want to screem.

Also Sarah Ditum being no platformed.

Well that's what the research suggests from what I hear

Does hormone therapy make you shorter and have less dense bones, and reshape your jawline and hand/foot size?

Does hormone therapy make you shorter and have less dense bones, and reshape your jawline and hand/foot size?

If you are female, then not getting estrogen anymore does make your bones less dense and can lead to you getting shorter. It's called osteoporosis.

I don't think the same is true for males. Though I am pretty sure surgery could give him a new jawline and something might be done about his hand size and foot size, too ...

Maybe footbinding will come back into fashion, for young transwomen. Transmen bind their breasts so ... it's roughly the same, isn't it?

I think it would impact bone density at least.

Speaking of breasts : www.huffingtonpost.com/the-establishment/the-troubling-erasure-of-_b_8673664.html

Shared by the analytical armadillo.

Clue: if you're giving birth and lactating, you're definitely not a man

Vestal, I'm aware that lack of hormones in women can cause osteoporosis. What I should have said to be clear is - "does hormone therapy for transwomen..."

More batshit nonsense. There was an article recently which had a corker along the lines of "it's as though society doesn't have a narrative for pregnant men"

Why the fuck would you identify as a man and then use your body for literally the mostly womanly thing you can do?

The breastfeeding network have just RT'd that article - absolute madness. It's not "erasure" it's "not rewriting our language for the 2 trans men a year who get pregnant and breastfeed vs hundreds of millions of women".

All this reworking of language and demanding that birth/period/vaginal rape/abortion language erases women and is opened to include all is such a good example of the power balance between trans people and women.

All language has historically erased women, except when discussing child birth/rearing. Language has us as either less-than-men or mothers. There is some objection (the coining of "womyn" has roots in this I think?) but in general there are bigger, more important fights to fight.

Yet trans people are demanding that all language become male-focused. And it's "troubling" that women have been confined as mothers not because that keeps women subordinated and without freedom, but because the tiny proportion of trans men feel excluded.

I makes me want to table-flip. Its just such utter nonsense!

1,000 people have an interest (or at least just enough to click like on a website...) and suddenly 50% of the population aren't important enough to refer to.

Are we sure that article isn't a parody though?

The term "mother" is itself problematic can't be an actual sentence in a legitimate article surely?

If it IS parody, the huff post are being very brave to incur the wrath of transactivists, so it's probably not

transphobia in birthing communities persists. Take, for instance, Women-Centered Midwifery, a group of gender-critical midwifes that recently issued an open letter to the Midwives Alliance of North America (MANA). The group expressed concern over the gender-neutral language being used by MANA, and expressed the antiquated belief that gender is tied to biology.

Their damaging statements included:

Human beings, like the majority of other mammals, are sexually dimorphic. i.e. there are two distinct biological sexes, female and male, with each having particular primary and secondary sex characteristics that allow us to make a distinction between the two. Sex is natural, biological and objectively factual.

Saying that Sex being biological and objectively factual is damaging? Whut?

Yup, and referencing women in laws is a surprise to them.

Some use the term "woman."

And no discussion of how sidelined actual women are through breastfeeding, except this token sentence they don't even protect the people named in the legislation itself, let alone a male-identified person who isn't

It's yet more of that befuddle people by intentionally conflating sex and gender until they don't know what they think any more.

Women-Centered Midwifery are clearly talking about sex, because they say sex. No antiquated beliefs about gender at all - in fact gender isn't mentioned in their 'damaging statements' at all.

@Culture: I was trying to be funny there. Drawing attention to the fact that lack of bone density is a real problem for women. ;)
Actually, I don't think taking estrogen has a negative impact on bone density in men. Bones usually reach maximum density at 20 or so, so if he transitioned later, he'd likely have male-type bones.

But if a male were really keen on changing his bone density, drinking a lot of coca cola is allegedly "helpful".

There was an article recently which had a corker along the lines of "it's as though society doesn't have a narrative for pregnant men"

Oh, but it has! Just google Mpreg! There's lots of narratives about pregnant men! (I always hated this sort of fanfic because it is so utterly surreal and unrealistic ... it is usually about the bepenised sort of person getting pregnant. The sort who doesn't have ovaries. Most fics don't explain it.)

Oh, and mythology. Zeus may not count as he has never born a child from his loins, but Loki might. On the other hand, Loki is canonically able to switch sexes, not just gender, so maybe that's not Mpreg.

To be fair, Loki is able to switch not only sex but species, having once become a mare, an actual woman and separately birthed a wolf, a serpent and and 8 legged foal

Yes, maybe Loki is not the best example for a pregnant man.

On the other hand, he should be worshipped by transpeople. I mean, he's genderfluid, sexfluid AND speciesfluid! It doesn't get any more special snowflake-y than that!

Ha! Good point. Although I fear Loki is probably too honest with his true self to ever be delusional enough to be considered trans*

I couldn't even read that whole breastfeeding article. I honestly feel like I must be dreaming. How can this possibly be real?

I want to share this article with everyone I know - but they'd think I was championing trans rights..! Though the amount of peope hitting peak trans (hopefully) would be worth it.

I'm totally allowed to comment btw, I'm a "mental person" and we've barely begun to upack the discrimination that goes on there... can I have a special snowflake more-discriminated-against-than-them badge please?

Oh and randomly, raised this on another thread and no response... but do you think it's easier to get a boob job on the NHS as a man than as a woman?

When folks use words like 'nursing families,' I don't have to stop and ask myself if I am OK passing as a woman. However, even with 'everyone' type of language, I often wonder if the inclusivity was an accident. I think the most supportive language is that which directly names those who are not generally included.

""I don't need every nursing class ever to say 'ladies and gentlemen,' but I do need the person at the front of the room I'm actually in to say 'ladies and gentleman.'"

One day, when the OED defines "Special Snowflake", they will use those quotes as perfect examples.

Thankfully the comments on that Huffpost article seem to recognise it for the bollocks it is.

From that article:

J. Kathleen (Jake) Marcus, an attorney in Philadelphia who specializes in parenting and gender legal issues, while acknowledging that issues of trans people being discriminated against under breastfeeding laws has never come up in court states that: '"Passing breastfeeding legislation that doesn't protect everyone that needs protection isn't worth doing. It has to be inclusive or nothing."

Essentially if we can't protect the trans community we should throw women under the bus.

Trevor MacDonald, a transgender father who has nursed his two children says that when people see language that does not apply to them, they may very well be less likely to seek those services even if they need them.

So lets change all the language around pregnancy, birth and breastfeeding to avoid the words 'woman' or 'mother' in favour of wording like "breastfeeding person" so that the very small number of transmen whose dysphoria apparently can cope with the most female thing women can possibly do feel included and why worry that it could well alienate millions of women?

It's all so very obviously trans lives matter and women's just don't.