proposed legislation in scotland - licensed saunas and legalised prostitution

[weeonion]

A consultation is currently happening in Scotland to make charges to the laws around prostitution, brothel keeping and pimping. No matter what you think - it would be good to have your voice, experiences and opinions heard in this. They have just extended the deadline to the 8th December so if time has been an issue for you - you now have another week!

Responses prepared electronically should be sent by e-mail to:
[email protected]
Responses prepared in hard copy should be sent by post to:
Jean Urquhart MSP
Room M3.20
Scottish Parliament
Edinburgh
EH99 1SP
You may also contact Jean Urquart’s office by telephone on (0131) 348 5052

Hi all - just to say, it looks like meahifro was a previously banned poster. We've now banned them. Thanks for the reports

Awwww... you deleted me lol

not that I wasn't expecting it

I still don't have a completely clear headed view of the issue, although equating prostition as rape as a default seems a little too extreme a position for me. However I am not a feminist so perhaps that's why.

That said the more I read around the subject the one thing I can commit to wholeheartedly is I don't want the German system. That setup looks fucking awful...

My view on prostitution is that I wish it did not exist, but sadly it does. The two things I would wish to be considered in the legal framework are how it can stop human trafficking, and how does it help women who wish to exit the profession to leave.

Today is the deadline for responses.

Even if you are not sure about everything proposed, you should let them know your general thoughts or things you would like explored further, such as forallthesaints points above.

"Douglas Fox rocks - check"

The first one to mention DF was a feminst to make an allegation which was debunked. I didn't see anyone say he rocks.

We could also play feminist sex-work bingo:
all prostitution is rape: check
any individual or group who advocates decriminalisation is a pimp or has links with pimps: check
False rape accusations made against people who don't agree with them: check

and that's about all they come up with. Getting a house isn't difficult.

And someone accused G Dalton of receiving payment for her opinion on RM. Who is paying her and how do you know this?

quote:weeonion"I also wonder why the vast vast majority of those who sell or exchange sex are women or girls and the vast vast majority of those who pay for sex are men. Hmmmm"

yeah it's a real mystery.

beaanadie wrote - "Getting a house isn't difficult."

Perhaps you could keep that in mind when you next claim, for the umpteeth time, that in your opinion, the existence of one homeless Swedish prostitute negates any possible good that the Swedish Model can do.

I'd not bother wasting your time, vesuvia, it's the pbp from earlier in the thread, who's finished his little cry-wank and has come back for more.

I wonder why punters who think prostitution is fine / empowering / just another job don't give it a go themselves? It's easy enough to set up an escorting profile and get punters. Granted it is likely to be men who want to pay them for a blow job or penetration which they may not want to do. Just like the majority of women involved but at least they would get the liberating experience of being paid for unwanted sex?

What do you reckon beaanadie?

I see Jean Urquhart will only honour requests for anonymity if reasons are given and she considers the request is reasonable.

I requested anonymity and as a reason mentioned her consultation was discussed here ; the majority of posters do not support her , but the most vociferous supporter was a formerly banned male user of prostitutes. I wonder if that is a good enough reason?

Interestingly I respond both in a professional and personal capacity to official Scottish Government consultations. I don't recall requests for anonymity having to be justified there.

For a previous poster requesting sources for UN involvement in trafficking Google the name kathy Bolkovac and than should give you a mass of information to start with

It would be reasonable to ask for, and be granted, anonymity if you were/are a former/current sexworker, and were responding within that context.

Being an anonymous poster on a popular website, not really.

It's some time since I read the document, and far too late at night for me to re-read now, but iircc if you ask for anonymity and she says "no", you can simply remove your comments.

She's not forcibly "outing" anyone. Why would you not want to stand by your statements? Either professionally or personally?

Really tired, prostitution is legal in the UK. And I can confirm that for many women it's just another day at the office, as far away from the rich high class courtesans as it is from the seedy coerced idea.
Many women including myself do this work having had lots of other jobs before and plenty of other choices
There are many pro's to being a set worker and for myself the cons are significantly lower than I've experienced in previous "regular " jobs

Why would I want my name and address to be made available to pimps and punters like the one who was on here?

In relation to other consultations my details are not anonymous but my recollection is a request for anonymity, if made, does not have to be justified.

Hirples - I think it is understandable that many people would not want their real name linked with consultation responses - not just those who are / have been involved in prostitution.

Given that certain people are waiting to go through responses, share them on social media and "name and shame" those who disagree with the proposals, I think reticence around giving real names is a form.of self protection.

It has happened in the past, so it is a strong possibility it will happen again.

I wonder how many punters will ask for anonymity or will they be open?

checked out the Scottish govt site and other consultations.

from the current whistleblower one -

"Handling your response

If you respond using Citizen Space, you will be automatically directed to the Respondent Information Form at the start of the questionnaire. This will let us know how you wish your response to be handled and, in particular, whether you are happy for your response to be made public.

If you are unable to respond via Citizen Space, please complete and return the Respondent Information Form attached at the end of this document as this will ensure that we treat your response appropriately. If you ask for your response not to be published, we will regard it as confidential, and we will treat it accordingly.

All respondents should be aware that the Scottish Government is subject to the provisions of the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002 and would therefore have to consider any request made to it under the Act for information relating to responses made to this consultation exercise."

but from Rhoda Grant's 2012 consultation document on legislative change

"113. Therefore, if you wish your response, or any part of it, to be treated as anonymous, please state this clearly along with the reasons for this. If I accept the reasons, I will publish it as “anonymous response”. If I do not accept the reasons, I will let you know and give you the option of withdrawing it or submitting it on the normal attributable basis. If your response is accepted as anonymous, it is your responsibility to ensure that the content of does not allow you to be identified."

I think it may be standard text in consultation documents and not something jean or her civil servants have come up by themselves.

The difference is the official ones will give anonymity if requested.

Rhoda Grant and Jean Urquhart are giving themselves the opportunity to decide.

If a FOI request was made to an official response information provided would be redacted.

Fuck it, couldn't give even the tiniest toss if punters and pimps know that I give more a damn about prostituted women than them. Not going to come as too much of a shock to my work and friends either!

Playswell - I know of people who experienced a bit of a hounding after "coming out" with their opposition to prostitution. They were 'pursued' around social media by a well known sexwork campaigner and had a tough time.

I wonder if these are the kind of things jean thinks are 'lively discussions'?

Playswell, are you not confusing prostitutes with trafficking victim's here

Hi sapphire - where do you think play well has done that?

I don't understand how you can deny the existence of women who freely choose escorting as a job. Trafficking is a completely different matter, surely you can't be (don't mean this offensively but can't think of another way to put it) ignorant enough to ignore actual prostitutes who have direct involvement in the industry when you have no idea what it's actually like, and that this is many women's livelihood you're interfering in without any understanding that trafficking and prostitution are completely different