Germaine Greer

[IamTheWhoreofBabylon]

i never post here but I'm watching Germaine Greer on newsnight
Crazy, the woman is not allowed to discuss feminist issues without being forced to discuss transgender issues
Disclaimer- I really like GG
Am I reading this correctly? Why does she have to fight for a different groups issues

Thanks Gwenhwyfar. I signed.

A good and disturbing blog post about this:

Here’s the bizarre reality: this interviewer is seated across from Germaine Greer – brilliant scholar, feminist icon, a woman who has nearly eighty years of experience and insight – and the best she can do is ask her about Bruce fucking Jenner?

Jesus.

I watched that video with my jaw hanging open. The questions. The interviewer. Determined to try and prod and poke - but she didn't get a reaction!

GO GERMAINE! You wiped the floor with her.

Brilliant.

slugs everyday feminism is my guilty pleasure. Well, perhaps pleasure is the wrong word. I read it when I'm in the mood for some batshit internet feminism.

In real life, it seems like most people reject this magical thinking, oppression olympics bs. I hope all the publicity, all the woman of the year awards, all the stereotypes and talk of bravery does prove counterproductive.

Great blog, Briar

I really liked that blog post.

The whole think increasing makes me think of wars of religion, where the orthodoxy requires a public profession of faith from everybody and apostasy is punishable by shaming. I'm reminded of Elizabeth I, "I have no desire to make windows into men's souls", I can't help feeling we should think a bit more along those lines. Because what does it matter if Greer, or you, or I don't think that saying one is a woman, makes one a woman? Why doesn't anyone get to say "OK, you crack on, I don't agree, but I'm not going to work either for you or against you"? If you wait for everyone in the world to agree with you, you'll have a bloody long wait.

Do Wark and Greer have any history together? Because I can't honestly believe that Wark isn't bright enough to know just how banal the questions she was asking were. Did she intend to get a rise out of Greer? I wondered at a couple of points if they hadn't actually cooked up the interview between them, and both knew exactly which way it was going to go, and it went exactly according to the intention.

Agree, really interesting blog Briar. I am now the second person to follow it on Bloglovin. Clearly a departure from my usual sewing and cooking fair!

GG was only on Newsnight because the hoo-ha over her speaking at Cardiff had made the news, and Kirsty Wark was obliged (as journalist) to seek answers to the questions that these idiots (i.e. those seeking to no-platform GG in Cardiff) had raised. It wasn't an in-depth "Kirsty Wark talks to Germaine Greer about her life and work" type of interview after all. I'm sure if it were, KW would not have asked such tortuously worded and banal questions! KW had to parrot the questions and accusations being levelled at GG in order to give GG an opportunity to respond. And Germaine responded magnificently.

Good point Rai.

I think the interview was a set-up between Wark and Greer so Greer could say what she wanted. Fair play to them if it was.

Raia you got there before me

I think you're probably right there, Raia.

Rai I have to disagree the BBC news team have been shit for a while now, the whole premise of the interview was weird, GG has been no platformed and instead of contextualising the situation Kirsty Warm just asked a series of banal thoughtless questions.

There is no analysis no investigation, why didn't they interview Cardiff uni women's officer instead make her defend her position. Also I think Kirsty Warm is mediocre at best, but then so is the rest of the editorial team.

I don't know, I think it's surprising how often perfectly intelligent people with strong opinions about trans issues turn out to not really know basic things about the issues (like the difference between transgender and intersex, and whether most transwomen have had surgery).
I would not be surprised if Kirsty really didn't have the first clue what was going on.

I'm with the Countess on this. I think KW's questions were indicative of most people's knowledge of trans issues, even intelligent people with an interest in current affairs. These issues are just not talked about in the mainstream media. KW has been scolded on Twitter for transphobic questions (e.g. If a man wants to have an operation to become a woman...). For most intelligent people, they haven't thought about this much more than that a tiny number of people are doing this, living awful lives, so why not try to make them feel better by saying they are women.

The more transactivists explain their position the better as far as I am concerned. Then it can be seen as the nonsense it so patently is.

Thank god for MN - to read Twitter, you would think there was only thought to be had about the whole trans thing and only one way of thinking it (which generally includes a lot of ageism and disgusting insults, as well).

The funny thing is, it's not second wave feminists who stab, beat, or intimidate trans people. Greer is not waiting down an alley near a nightclub with a knife shouting 'tranny scum'. Indeed, I'll warrant it is most often men doing that. And yet it's feminists and women who are ordered to do something about it and thought to be the biggest problem trans people face.

Flora, Countess, no doubt you're right. I didn't intend to state a strong opinion that Kirsty Wark knows the ins and outs of this issue because my guess is that she doesn't. I'm sure it's true that most people have not given this much thought. Your average liberal/leftie type of person (KW probably falls into that category) would most likely adopt a knee jerk pro trans rights position with an assumption that this is a put-upon minority group fighting for their human rights and therefore deserving of support, without examining what the implications of all this are for women.

FreshwaterSelkie, your wars of religion comparison is spot on.

Surely as a journalist its your job to investigate why there is a tension between GGs position and TA.

I am not buying the whole she probably hasn't thought about angle, its her job to think about it, she is being paid by the public to be inquisitive and curious.

Just seen that the petition currently has 2,465 signatures whereas the counter-petition has 2,356. Given that the petition seems to have been massively pushed and the counter-petition hardly mentioned (especially in the Guardian - for example, this Guardian article about the petition which doesn't mention the counter-petition: www.theguardian.com/education/2015/oct/23/petition-urges-cardiff-university-to-cancel-germain-greer-lecture and this article that links to the petition but doesn't mention the counter-petition: www.theguardian.com/education/2015/oct/23/petition-urges-cardiff-university-to-cancel-germain-greer-lecture), this seems pretty amazing on the part of the counter-petition. I'm really glad to see there is more balance in this than you would think just by reading the papers. But very sad and frustrated that Greer has been prevented from speaking and all the women who would have loved to hear her have been prevented.

I think you need to educate yourself in the matter them maybe you'd have some empathy and understanding

Ha ha ha ha! Pretty good joke there, VulcanWoman

I can't quite believe what I'm reading, "they need help to come to terms with what body they have", didn't they used to try that with someone that was gay, well they still do.

I don't think this is a fair comparison. They used to try to condition gay people to think or act like they are not gay. The suggestion above is not that transpeople should be forced to live a lie - i.e., continue to present as male if they are a transwoman, but that they need to come to terms with what body they have. This is a biological fact. They do have this body. They have to come to terms with it. A male body cannot ever be made female (and vice versa). It can be made to appear female in some ways but there are many ways in which it will never be female and there is a high cost for these cosmetic changes (painful surgery, life-long dependence on hard-core medication). Transpeople, whether or not they choose to transition medically, need to come to terms with this because they cannot simply change into another body in the way that a gay man can just accept his homosexuality and sleep with men. It sucks for them but it is a fact, and denying it is helping nobody.

And if patriarchy didn't cling to the idea of normative binary opposite gender roles - man = male =masculine & woman = female = feminine - then there wouldn't be a problem. A born man who wanted to adopt the lifestyle, behaviour, looks, dress of a woman could just do so. Just as women today wear trousers, have short hair, earn money, own property, and vote, as men of yesterday were the only ones alowed to.

And if men are ridiculed - well, think of the ridicule (to the point of violence) directed at women fighting for liberation over the milennia.

But to say a man who lives as a woman "becomes" a woman - well, it's a misrepresentation of biology. But if they're doing what they want, living how they want to live, who cares?

It's mostly men who are bothered about men staying men but adopting a "feminine" lifestyle (for want of a better word). It's a mix of misogyny and homophobia.

Because homophobia is founded on misogyny. To stereotypical "masculine" men a man who loves men, and has sex with men, and identifies as gay, is akin to being a woman, and therefore less than fully human.

Wasn't it Professor Greer who said ages ago, that women have to overlook how much men hate them? Feminism is dangerous knowledge in that way.

It does suck for transgender people, life must be a challenge. Life is a challenge for women, the disabled, people of various classes, casts, race and so on.

I would like different issues on the agenda please.

Aghh! Getting more and more frustrated about the reporting of this. There is article after article about or mentioning and linking to the petition, but hardly a mention anywhere of the counter-petition.