Radio 5 phone in on consent at 9.00am

[Caprinihahahaha]

They just called to see if I wanted to go on but I have laryngitis .
I'm not feeling well so maybe I shouldn't listen. I have a feeling it's going to give me the rage.

It's such an interesting topic though - they are picking up on the students refusing to go to lectures on consent because they are 'not rapists'.

Sorry, that should say that I find it just slightly uncomfortable to compel adults in this way. Kids in school, it's part of the deal innit.

Womens rights are being encroached on but that's a separate issue... Well no it isn't. It's the reason for the course.

His decision not to go doesn't affect any of us... It may. And the fact he (and you) don't see that is part of the problem.

I think it's because of the recent studies that have shown horrifying rates of sexual assault on university campuses. Universities can try and influence schools, but they can attempt to reach their own students directly.

Understood and thanks. Hopefully if this sort of thing has an impact that could create a case for targeting younger people.

Regarding your second point, clearly there needs to be a compulsion to do your exams, it's the essence of the thing. IT policies and health and safety regs are about access to facilities rather than access to education. I suppose if the position was - 'we can't force you to go on the consent course - you've a right to access to education - but if you want to stay in our accommodation you'll have to do it', I'd be completely happy.

I suppose from one point of view it could even be beneficial if the course was 'strongly recommended' rather than compulsory. The list of refuseniks would be a lovely self-contained list of 'wankers to avoid'

I agree with you dancingbear but given rape/assault likelihood amongst female students goes up to 1 in 3 from a mean chance of 1 in 4 for the general population. Given 55% of the student population is female and a third of that is 18% of total students. If there was a University that had a health and safety record where 18% of students came away injured in someway the whole place would likely be shut down...

Yes scallops it may but that's speculation. We can't assume it affects us in the basis "if he doesn't go then he might do something to one of us later". That's flawed logic.

By forced Im meaning something siMilan to a workplace. My boss can't force me to work today and it's right that I have the choice to walk out if I choose. But it's also right that I would need to face the punishment for that.

Dont I think we are all on the same page. I don't believe anyone has asserted he should be forced, but face consequences for choosing not to.

Exactly Buffy. And complaining about it says a lot about him. And less about the course. Yet we are expected to accept its the course that is the problem, not him.

"He's sending a message that his hurty feelz are more worthy of everyone's attention and concern than the level of sexual assault on campuses." And that shows a sense of entitlement towards women. And a sense of entitlement towards women is what men who sexually harass and assault women have. That is why I have a problem with this bloke. No, he may not go out and harass and sexually assault women but he's not exactly showing his respect for women either.

This isn't about heterosexual relationships though, it's about all relationships involving a sexual nature.

He should face consequences for non attendance, simply because no one assumes he is a heterosexual guy.

His reasons for non attendance are a concern for not only the university and the students but society as a whole. How anyone can fail to see this, signals to me that that person who does fail to attend has something to hide.

Reading his blog, his attendance wasn't compulsory, it was optional. It seems his issue is that he has taken the invite, (sent via facebook) very personally.

I don't see an issue if he doesn't want to attend the optional lecture. I don't understand why he's made such a big deal about it.

How anyone can fail to see this, signals to me that that person who does fail to attend has something to hide

Classic. This is the thread that keeps on giving.

Says cadno

"he's not exactly showing his respect for women either."

How does him deciding that an optional class isn't for him, mean that he isn't showing respect for women?

"How anyone can fail to see this, signals to me that that person who does fail to attend has something to hide."

I don't think that's right at all, that's the same idea that if you aren't doing anything wrong you won't mind your partner going through your handbag or your phone. He might not have anything to hide, he just doesn't want to go to the class. You can't assume he might be a rapist just because he isn't going to a course, that's assuming without any solid grounds.

Well make em' compulsorary, problem solved. Then nobody needs to feel singled out. It's just something everyone does!

Addressing the point many have raised, quite fairly that perhaps this should all be addressed a fair bit earlier through schools. I quite agree, but given that University is a time where women are more at risk it simply must be addressed.

What if he still refused to go to them, deciding that it was worth taking whatever punishment he got for failure to attend a compulsory class. Unless you're literally talking about jailing people who don't go, there would still be the odd one who didn't go, but yes there would be much higher attendance if it was compulsory, as it would just be seen as another of those courses we need to sit through every so often.

I believe the example of him not being able to stay on campus was mooted for that situation, Don't. So, not dissimilar to what would happen if he refused to attend the required H&S lecture, or his not being able to use the intranet if he doesn't attend the fair use lecture.

Again, the discussion of consent should be being had much earlier, in EYFS preferably and then ongoing throughout a child's educational career.

It's interesting to me that his statement that he isn't what a rapist looks like isn't being dissected though. If he doesn't think that he looks like a rapist, what do he and others think a rapist actually looks like?

I think your spot on as usual Buffy especially on affecting a sea change. It has to be worth a shot.

Buffy,

"He's sending a message that his hurty feelz are more worthy of everyone's attention and concern than the level of sexual assault on campuses."

I don't understand why you think he can only believe in one of those things. What if he afford equal consideration to both, what if he feels that he doesn't need to go to this course and he also feels that women have just as important a right to go about safely on campus. It's almost as if it's saying that if you don't go to this course, you must not want women to have the right to be safe on campus but why, what if you do believe in that but just don't want to go on the course?

"It's interesting to me that his statement that he isn't what a rapist looks like isn't being dissected though. If he doesn't think that he looks like a rapist, what do he and others think a rapist actually looks like?"

If he's actually said that he doesn't physically look like a rapist then that's rather shocking. A rapist doesn't have a particular type of appearance.

Buffy said: '"He's sending a message that his hurty feelz are more worthy of everyone's attention and concern than the level of sexual assault on campuses."

And Don't replied "I don't understand why you think he can only believe in one of those things."

Er... have you read his article, Don't? Because he pretty much opposes his hurty feelz to the entire programme of education about consent. He starts by claiming (against all the evidence) that the 'overwhelming majority of people' understand consent, follows that up with 'I don’t need your help to understand basic human interaction', and then ends with 'Next time you consider inviting me or anyone else to another bulls__t event like this, have a little respect for the intelligence and decency of your peers'.

It's just pure, unadulterated arrogance from an overprivileged scrote.

He stood there with a placard with the words "This isn't what a rapist looks like". Have you really only just the headline of this news item?? In which case I really am confused what your investment in all this is.

Essentially you don't seem to be really all that that opposed to the common sense solution that they make the courses compulsorary and have sanctions for those who fail to comply.

Given as I've asserted rape/assault statistics are 1 in 4 amongst the general female population, and 1 in 3 amongst female students is it really so problematic to identify that as a) a problem and b) something we should tackle? Again I challenge you if compulsorary consent workshops are not the way forward, what are Universities to do?