Radio 5 phone in on consent at 9.00am

[Caprinihahahaha]

They just called to see if I wanted to go on but I have laryngitis .
I'm not feeling well so maybe I shouldn't listen. I have a feeling it's going to give me the rage.

It's such an interesting topic though - they are picking up on the students refusing to go to lectures on consent because they are 'not rapists'.

I really wonder why you want to defend this man so much. His rights aren't being encroached on, whereas women's are. Where is your outrage for that?

He should not get to decide though, that's the problem. He is not the server. He is the receiver.

I don't think it should be the 'responsibility of men' to ensure that women go about their everyday lives free from harassment. It should be the responsibility of each human to ensure this right. Unfortunately, we live in a world were men do take on this responsibility, therefore giving them the 'right' to ignore safeguarding 'because they know all there is to know about it' by the time they are 18, presumably after a lifetime of social conditioning.

Sorry, Scallops, I misread your post.

Absolutely it is:

the responsibility of men to not harass and assault women

It's one compulsory hour of training for both sexes. At the very minimum it will bring home to students that no longer being in school doesn't mean the end of compulsory attendance at things you might think are boring and/or irrelevant.

I don't have an issue with Larrys suggestion of re-branding the title of the course.

Absolutely it is:
the responsibility of men to not harass and assault women

Slight derail but women can be extremely judgemental about other women's sexual behaviour. The female bullies at my school could have learned a lot from being told there is no correlation between your worth as a person and whether or not you are having sex.

Don't

"I already gave a justification why some might refuse the compulsory classes, but you dismissed it out of hand. So your statement that I have no way of justifying it is incorrect. I did give a justification, you just ignored it or decided it was wrong."

That's right. I think your justification is utter bollocks. You haven't said anything to change my mind. You just keep delivering the same, slightly whiny 'but why does he have to go'.

You do seem incredibly invested in the idea that 18 year old men should be left to decide whether or not they know all there is to know about consent.

Tbh I'm too a bit questioning as to your investment in 18 yo people understanding the concept of consent.
When you actually discuss this with adult men who have actually been convicted of rape ( yes, this isn't just about this subject) there is often a confusion in their thinking, as every other message they have received has told them they were doing nothing wrong, eg the Ched Evans example and numerous others.
fwiw I'm a male and my 18 yo self had a context of understanding, but I would def. have been illuminated by education in this, and would not have dismissed it as irrelevant.

So, just why are you so keen to refute the need? Open question.

Thank god you're here, Lass. I was worried that the thread was going to continue without anyone saying that girls do sexy harassment worse than boys so what's the problem?

As 99% of sexual violence is carried out by men I think we are on safe ground to suggest that this is an overwhelmingly male problem.

Yes women do police other women's sexual behaviour. Now, I wonder why that would be....?

lass - this isn't a place where you're free to say what you want. Its bad enough if you're a man - but it really rattles their cage if you are a woman.

Yes women do police other women's sexual behaviour. Now, I wonder why that would be....?

The unfathomable evil of women is my guess since socialisation doesn't exist.

Oh yes ,abbie let us never point out women can be vile too. And don't forget to ignore everything else I've said on this thread when you pick up on a point.

I think other posters have commented on the fact the course is not aimed exclusively at men.

Plenty of women leapt to the defence of Evans. There are plenty of women whose thinking on consent and their attitude towards other women might need a bit of help too.

Oh yes Abbie the women can't think for themselves get out of jail card free.

but it really rattles their cage if you are a woman.

Women are not caged animals.

Aren't they ? - So that explains why you see some many walking free.

so not 'some'

So why make the literary allusion?

You obviously believe women should be put in their place, hence the non accidental metaphor of cages and women.

Elendon Its a common enough expression as seen here

You do demonstrate my point very well though - thanks.

Plus, rattle their cages has racist/slavery undertones as well.

It is common place with 'yank their chain'.

Just so you know.

whatever

cadno - I think you're making your own point v well indeed, without assistance i.e. a refusal, or inability, to update yourself in the use of modern diction and reference. Stuff like that would probs. be okay in the 1970s, or prior. But it isn't now, so do get out more and have a look at wider sensitivities other than your own?

Of course it has to be both the women and men going on the course - everyone needs to know what consent looks like from both sides.

I certainly let things go much further than I was comfortable with at that age - I think a course in consent, perhaps with some handy phrases/techniques would probably have helped me understand that I could say no, and that the other person should stop when I say it.

Personally I think it's a very, very rare 18 year old that has enough life experience to know everything about any subject.

Lisbeth - you choose your words and phrases and I will choose mine.