Why strip clubs are so wrong

[bodenbiscuit]

A male friend of mine is annoying me because he apparently wants me to go to a strip club with him.

I am very surprised at him because he's a cerebral and generally decent person. I thought better of him to be honest.

I said to him that strip clubs objectify women the same way that prostituion does and he said they are a form of art - I mean seriously what disingenuous bolleaux.

Now he is saying that I'm not being mature about it because I won't change my mind. Apparently the men are the ones being exploited (eye roll) oh that old chestnut.

So how do those of you more eloquent than I argue your point on this one?

In reply to slug: The article in the link I provided was written by a woman.

In reply to BuffytheReasonableFeminist: My question "Have you actually looked into branches of feminism" is a fair one. When I've talked to anti-porn feminists about the organisation Feminists Against Censorship, a response I've had is "We've never heard of them".

Testicles of objectivity, innit.

Here's the thing Johnny, you don't have the lived experience of women. Neither do I, but unlike you instead of telling them how to do feminism I listen and learn how I can support and teach my children.

Thanks for my spiffing new NN Flora :o

I listen to feminists too, just different ones.

I'm at work and should be working but I'll drop you a line Johnny to explain how it is possible to (a) not be a feminist (b) have no religious beliefs whatsoever and (c) on the evidence of the little I have read by and about Dworkin think she was utterly bonkers and still understand what is wrong with strip clubs.

OMFG "thetesticlesofobjectivity" You are one motherfucking username.
Can I call on you in times of crisis please! ?

And isn't it a coincidence that those feminists you do listen to, Johnny, are the ones who have the most male-friendly agenda? :)

That's your characterisation of it.

In reply to ALassUnparalleled: I'm not saying there's nothing wrong with MAINSTREAM strip clubs. Apart from anything else, a lot of mainstream stripping/porn etc is trashy, cold and boring. That's why feminist strippers, pornographers and porn performers have a very different ethos and vibe.

"feminist strippers"
Lol.

It's awesome isn't it squidzin? :o It was something posted by FloraFox about 3 weeks ago on this thread which I read in a oner today. "What a great idea for a user name" I thought, "bet somebody's already snaffled it", but they hadn't. :o

My personal opinion of men who condone the sex industry is they're terrible excuses for human beings who don't particularly like women.

Brilliant name, Testicles. I do think that any bloke who feels the need to pay to see naked women must be an inadequate plonker.

That's why feminist strippers, pornographers and porn performers have a very different ethos and vibe.

Pahahahahahahahahahahaha

hahahahahahaha

Honestly, go away.

What does feminist stripping look like? Is it where all the male gazers are blindfolded?

Dunno, but it has a different "vibe" so maybe.

If there's a vibe involved I think they've gone beyond merely stripping.

I've just read the Wikipedia entry on feminist stripping. Apparently it's about the stripper as an empowered goddess accepting homage and tips from admiring men.

Or being leched over by sad wankers, maybe.

ToO I can't claim credit for Testicles of Objectivity, I'm afraid. Wish I could but it was Helen Lewis who coined it.

johnnyb123 seems to be one of those blokes who claims he "listens to women" when he really means he only listens to women who claim feminism justifies commercialisation of sex and negation of women's sexual experience for the male gaze / objectification.

The philosophy that upholds the notion that individual choice is paramount is liberalism, not feminism. I believe liberalism is contrary to feminism as feminism is a class movement although I can see a viewpoint that feminism seeks to dismantle the class of women so that they can make individual choices. I don't support that as a goal but even if I did I think they have it back to front. Women are not free of socialisation and oppression and therefore making choices that reflect patriarchal ideas are not an expression of either feminism or liberalism.

I thoroughly recommend the Wikipedia page. It would be depressing if one took it seriously but as it's so badly written and badly argued it's actually quite funny.

I've never been to a strip club in my life. Went to two burlesque shows four years ago. At both shows at least half the audience were women (I've been told this is the norm at these shows). I hope nobody is going to make the patronising suggestion that the women in the audience must have been "brainwashed by patriarchy" or were only there to please male friends/partners. Many of them were in groups of women with no men with them.

So you're allowed to be patronising, Johnny, but not us? That's not very fair.