Why strip clubs are so wrong

[bodenbiscuit]

A male friend of mine is annoying me because he apparently wants me to go to a strip club with him.

I am very surprised at him because he's a cerebral and generally decent person. I thought better of him to be honest.

I said to him that strip clubs objectify women the same way that prostituion does and he said they are a form of art - I mean seriously what disingenuous bolleaux.

Now he is saying that I'm not being mature about it because I won't change my mind. Apparently the men are the ones being exploited (eye roll) oh that old chestnut.

So how do those of you more eloquent than I argue your point on this one?

Yes squidzin, and now with such availability of porn (and little counter comment) its gives a warped view of sex.

I was mega shy, so no real female interaction at all through those years. alasunparralled but if your only learning about women based on the media (page3/glamour) and 'accepted' norms i.e strippers prostitutes are tolerated, in addition to the way media portray women, now add in a vociferous MRE bloc as well, many men I feel are going to fall through the cracks.

I think there was a study I read in New Scientists where they were going to do a study on the effects of porn on young men but were having problems finding a control as all had been exposed.

Indeed very few women are involved in the industries but all men are consuming that media. Maybe each one on its own you cant measure a specific outcome but surely it all acts as reinforcement?

I think this was the study, www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2011/08/18/research-suggests-all-men-watch-pornography_n_930349.html

Why are strip clubs are so wrong? Short answer is it robs women of sexual agency. Living in a world where one side has dominance over what should be the dictionary definition of reciprocal human interaction sends everything sideways to topple over.

I reject any and all arguments that men somehow "need" sexual stimulation more. If that were so fewer women would have affairs, whereas studies indicate it's about even.

We have a double pronged problem in that there are men who feel entitled, and women who are willing to cater to it. I don't see we can tackle only one side of this without the other.

I agree with all your points Dervel

I can imagine few things more awful than being trafficked in to the sex industry or feeling there was no economic alternative but there are female supporters who apparently are making a free choice and telling us how wonderful and empowering stripping was for them.

Any opressive system rewards those who are compliant, or opression would be met with resistance.

I was a shy girl, I went to an all girls school for a bit, my dad worked long hours, and I only had 1 younger brother..

Yet.. I still know that men are people. I still don't feel that they're mainly there to be ornamental and it's fine and desirable to sit and watch them strip for me. It's just such a bizarre position to me.

I do think porn is damaging, but Breaking, if that's how you feel then it's even more damaging than I imagined.

I really, really hope that I can somehow manage to raise well rounded sons, it feels like it could be such an uphill battle reading some things here.

I went to all boys schools, never once stepped foot in a stripclub. I'm not all that shy though.

It seems a major issue is some men's constant need for sexual contact, that is varied and often.

The fact some men are willing to pay large sums for that contact, means, you will always have women happy to provide it.

Mengog.
I would argue it's men's perceived need, which is socialised into an entitlement.
You have women willing to provide, not happy to. Woman's own needs are opressed as they are socialised to be complaint, not demanding.
Men should be able to control themselves, women do.

I, 100%, do not believe men somehow automatically need more sex than women. Society does not opress a man's desire by calling him a "slag" or whatever.

Without socialisation would women's sexual behavior be very similar to that of men?

I always think to holidays, especially when you' re in your late teens and twenties in places like Magaluf, Malia etc. Anecdotal evidence, but I find woman feel free to act in a more promiscuous way then when at home, and the men just act the same. As no one judges.

Women are increasingly using porn, male escorts and male strip shows are becoming more popular. I think the difference between men and womens sexuality is minor when all social negatives are removed.

Absolutely. Women have desire for sex, no strings attached sex and loving committed lifelong sexual partnering. Same as men.

Society positions male desire as all-important that must be accommodated and serviced.

The "red blooded male" vs "The slut".

Sexual displays are widely accepted so long as they are there to satisfy male desire. Page 3 for example. Stripping another. "Harmless fun".

Women going around in Ibiza putting on a sexual display in order to get sex from a man of her choosing is a good parallel. This is generally condemned as debauched behaviour.

IMO, women like sex as much as men, but men have a sex industry full of subservient women to fulfill their every fantasy while their wife is at home taking care of his children ... I blame socialisation for that, not biology! Impossible to erase generations of socialization though.

Always always I see this "women are as bad as men, or they would be if given the chance", and it always makes me think of how myopically male-centered such people are.

Why judge equality by women increasing their rape and violence against men instead of by men raping as infrequently as women currently do and men committing violence as infrequently as women currently do?

How psychologically broken by patriarchy must someone be to suggest that social engineering that increases women's economic sexual extortion of others is a legitimate path to social progress?

Hmm, sillage I hope your post isn't inspired by anything I said.

I believe oppressing women's sexual agency gives men a "free card" to violate/exploit/pay for women... As in "We just can't get it otherwise and I'm only a natural human".

If female desire was not opressed, perceived to be weaker and of less importance, (undoing patriarchal socialisation), one outcome may be that men have no excuses for their violation.

I don't think women should violate men.
I do think if women were not opressed in a miriad of ways, men would not so frequently violate women.

I'm not suggesting women would be more violent against men and start raping them.

It was a question based on articles I've read about the increase in porn and escort use among women.

Also I connected it to the behaviour of some young women abroad. Whereas you always hear them having to justify their behaviour with the prefix "I never behave like this at home". I suppose the question is why not.

"I'm not suggesting women would be more violent against men and start raping them."

Then I suggest you don't know anything about pornography or prostitution if you don't see both the overt and covert violence required to force sexual submission out of people being made slaves who are rented by johns and bought & sold by pimps.

"I suppose the question is why not."

Because every day in every country men dominate women completely in such ways that a few statistically insignificant wealthy women with the will to do so can only accomplish by visiting impoverished nations to lightly mimic the power differential between herself and vulnerable, racially-marginalized young men. Men get that power-over in their own homes, in the streets of their neighborhoods, and through a billion internet web pages.

A softball team of teenage girls could easily lure a mentally handicapped boy into a basement and shove a small bat into his rectum for the entertainment of the girls watching. Do you wonder why teenage girls haven't been found who have done anything like this while every week brings another gang rape victim of male sports teams, male fraternities, male soldiers, male businessmen, male prostitution tourists?

I don't wonder why boys are raised to become predatory monsters and girls aren't, I demand men end their yearning for the sexualized brutality that shores up their social supremacy by instilling terror in fully half the population.

I'm not really talking about sex tourism. On a slight tangent but my original post talked about men wanting varied and regular sexual contact. Which manifests itself in numerous ways. Words like slut and slag make women shy away from sexual behaviour that carries that label.

When I talk about foreign trips, it's the 18-30 holidays in the Spanish/Greek islands I'm referring to. Where the sexual behaviour of both men and women starts to become similar in many aspects - inappropriate sexual comments, touching and a sexual forwardness that would be frowned upon a home.

I personally don't think the increase of escort use, for example, in this country is an increase of womens sexual violence against men IMO.

I always think to holidays, especially when you' re in your late teens and twenties in places like Magaluf, Malia etc

I have no personal experience of this type of holiday - even when I was young enough to go it would have been my idea of hell.

My son went to Magaluf (I think ) when he was 18 with the intention of spending a week there and coming back over 2 weeks through Europe by train. I don't think he said it just to please me but he hated Magaluf (or wherever it was)

Where the sexual behaviour of both men and women starts to become similar in many aspects - inappropriate sexual comments, touching and a sexual forwardness that would be frowned upon a home.

But you are ignoring the fact that on these holidays if both sexes are equally up for it , and neither sex has to pay the other for its participation then it's neither sex harassing or intimidating the other.

Perhaps these types of holiday are affording a temporary outlet to indulge in hedonistic behaviour.

Sorry x post with Buffy. Of course that case was terrible.

Just a small point, but not having sex with a woman until your mid to late 20's doesn't make you a candidate for lapping up return of kings rubbish. Being an inadequate idiot does.

Sorry about your brother Breaking.