Rape and coercion

[VampyreQueen]

I'm trying to think something through and I'd greatly appreciate some help!

My DP and I were discussing a well known game franchise that he plays. I haven't played it myself so only know the story second hand, if you see what I mean.

Essentially, Character A and Character B are kidnapped by the Bad Guys. The Bad Guy tells A that he has a choice; either A can rape B or he (Bad Guy) will. This is basically a means of torture, in that A must decide wether to take the 'kinder' option of doing it or allowing the Bad Guy to do it (probably with added violence)

To me, A is still a rapist and - though in a shit position - is still morally wrong (if you see what I mean)

DP disagrees. I would be interested in your thoughts, Should you care to share them

Surely the answer is entirely dependent on what B says is the lesser of two evils. The physical side of rape is by far the lesser part, however I suppose I can see the point that A could be less physically violent about it than bad guy. But as the mental aspect of rape is far worse, I'd say being raped by someone who's meant to be on your side and presumably trustworthy is going to have a bigger emotional price than the bad guy.
If B chose A to rape over bad guy, then it would still be rape and A a rapist but with mitigating factors/ bad guy as named accomplice.
If it was just a question of physical violence, like punching or hitting, then I could see the logic of A being the lesser of two evils and not responsible.

my thoughts are - unprintable.

what does your DP think if they're all men?

Well, we have discussed it further.

DP says he would feel exactly the same if B were a man.

He also Saud that the choice was given to A in front of B and B accepted A's choice and 'helped' him to get through it. I think that's suppose to make it better but somehow it just really doesn't.

And yes, I meant A became less likeable. Sorry.

From your last post I'd guess your dp views rape as a physical act with mental repercussions, rather than the other way round.
As a female I can understand his perspective if we were talking about being punched etc, but not rape.
For pure violence I can imagine 'helping through' A in terms of A could be expected to hold his punches if we were talking about being beaten up, because it's all physical. Rape is entirely different.

If B wasn't consenting to the act, of course it would still be rape.

How it holds up in court, as A was coerced, I'm not sure.

I've already said twice "how it would hold up in court" . Although the answer to your question is staring you in the face in your first sentence.

This thread is vile. I reported it last night and am disappointed to see MN think rape as a game is OK.

LassUnparalleled Calm down...I hadn't read your post when I posted

MN leaving it to stand doesn't mean they think "rape as a game is OK" it means

1] they haven't had time to review it yet
2] it doesn't break their community standards
3] the thread isn't vile. The opinion of those who think rape is OK is vile. But op is asking us to settle a debate. That is perfectly valid

Oh & sorry but you said "I only did criminal law at first year of university and have never practised it." So really, you have no idea how it would go in court in terms of him being able to use it as a defence.

Although I agree, rape is vile.

Read your own post and see the blatant contradiction in what you said in the space of 2 sentences . At best the "coercion" might go towards sentencing.

"Settle a debate" really? It's a given there's nothing wrong with the game scenario?

I take it you missed the part where I said this scenario had actually been an essay subject and the tutors said it would not stand?

Lass, what are you talking about? I haven't googled the game but I'm sure it exists. As it exists, we are discussing it. We often discuss things in mainstream culture that are vile, lingering shots of dead naked women in CSI or whatever.

No one on the thread has said "this sounds like a great game" or anything remotely like that. To jump to MNHQ thinking rApe as a game is ok is utter nonsense.

And since when did someone's decades old student essay and their tutor's opinion of it (which you actually expressed as " the answer was thought to be no") mean the rest of us should not even consider the question any more, take that as gospel and suffer some dismissive high handedness if we don't?

I'm amazed that you are so blasé about the inclusion of rape scenarios as part of an online game. Given the enormous amount of every day minor things FWR takes exception to.

I'm deregistering. There have been some interesting discussions. I would have expected this thread to have generated a debate about how such a scenario as part of a game is even acceptable, not what has been discussed.

Oh and claiming duress as a defence to commit a crime might mitigate at sentencing. It not a defence.

"Settle a debate" really? It's a given there's nothing wrong with the game scenario? Huh?

OP said her & her dp were discussing it & she wanted opinions.

She said yes, it was rape. He said no, it wasn't! They discussed it, couldn't settle it. That's a debate, no?

Blasé, really? Are we not allowed to discuss in a reasonable manner? Or should we be shouting & screaming at each other?

Of course I'm not blasé about it as well you know. Any more than MNHQ, who originated We Believe You, despite your aspersions cast at them.

Sorry, I've only just caught up with this.

I genuinely started this thread to gather opinions and help me to articulate the issues I had with this game. however, I'm aware it's a less than pleasant subject matter so if people think it's a vile thread or inappropriate I will, of course, delete it/report it. I genuinely don't want to upset anyone.

With regards to the plot being in the game, I agree that it is not a subject to be taken lightly and was possibly thrown in as a quick and easy way to create emotion/drama. I would say that lots of different scenarios are explored - betraying your friends/ saving one life at the expense if another/ wether torture is ever acceptable and so on. I initially saw this plot as an extension of that but perhaps I am wrong. I am certainly uncomfortable with the way players see A and B as equally victims

DO does get sort of defense about this and other games.

I wonder if it's because he feels like a criticism of the game Is a criticism of him? E.g., if this game is sexist/misogynistic than I (as a fan of this game) must also be sexist/misogynistic. Since I am not, the game can't be either.

*apologies for typos. I have fat fingers