sexualisation of children vs slut shaming

[bikeandrun]

My DD is y6, having a great time with a fancy dress parades and final party. Being having lots of discussions with other mums and my mum about what the girls have been wearing. Finding my responses to this difficult
" cant believe mums let their daughters out of the house dressed like that" response to crop tops, mini skirts, lots of slap high heels etc

"girls don't understand the effect they have on men when they dress like that" this was aimed at a girl in dds year who has obviously gone through puberty and has a woman's body
Are just a few quotes I have heard
As a young single woman i used to enjoy dressing in an extreme and sexual way and felt empowered and confident.BUT

These girls are not sexual beings yet but is it slut shaming or just protective parenting to not want 11 year olds to dress like this.

I persuaded dd to wear converse rather than high heels mainly cos I know she wanted to jump around like a manic but I also really didn't like how she looked in those heels.
Help me find a feminist way through these feeling as I support my daughter as she grows into a woman

Go ahead, attack my intellect and understanding of the thread. I'm confident in both. And not in the remotest bit threatened by you feeling threatened.

But I suspect the real question is, does dressing skimpily tell us that a woman is a slut. My answer is no.

Well, sure, you can only make a presumption. But that applies to almost anything in life until tested. There is a difference between knowing a girl is highly promiscuous and thinking they are because they seem to project that aura via clothes and behaviour. I have seen women 'dressed like sluts' who certainly did not behave that way and others dressed conservatively who knew exactly what it was they were there for, finding a new lay for the night.

If a man encounters a woman dressed 'like a slut' different things will pop into his head, 'ease of access' appears with 'safety of access' and 'desirability of access'. Different guys have different attitudes to that mix ratio. Broadly speaking I think the body conveys desirability, and clothes/behaviour can mute or enhance that, but its clothes and behaviour that communicate possible ease of access to the body, assuming people come from comparable societies and nothing is lost in translation.

Dad very well-put.

If only we as women didn't have to navigate the ease of access, desirability of access, safety of access trilogy every single day we go outside from the time we hit puberty.

'Ease of access'? 'Safety of access'?

That's what you consider when looking at 10-14 year old girls?

Just what length , from waist band, to hemline would discourage that?

Your reasoning totally supports the Burqa

I was being polite Mrs, considering

What about a woman in heels and a short skirt at work in a business meeting?

What about a school girl in a short skirt?

Are they advertising ease of access to their bottom?

It's a rhetorical question. Let me spell it out, so there is no confusion. NO. No, they are not

That's rapist talk, right there

Oh God. All men are rapists. Are we at that level of discussion now?

No. I never said or implied 'all men are rapists'

Who is that photo?

I'm not sure where 'to their bottom' came from in my previous post

It was unintentional. Can't remember what I meant to write though

Kiwi, I am honestly finding it very hard to understand you.

DWH - ease of access? Charming.

'To their body'

The photo is from a comedy sketch show called Portlandia. The two "wimmen" characters run a feminist book shop. And make outrageous comments that lampoon the kind of loony feminism we see on this thread.

I actually agree with the ease of access thing. That's exactly what my husband thinks when he sees me in skimpy clothes.

Anyway. I have a 10-month old baby girl and when she grows up I will not be dressing her in crop tops, short shorts, slogan tops, little heels or bikinis.

Mostly because I think it looks cheap but also because childhood is so short, why curtail it further with "adult" clothes?

The assertion that 11 year old girls in short skirts are not advertising the availability of their bodies for sex, is not 'loony feminism'

How do shorts 'curtail childhood'?

Cailin that's okay, it seems you've had trouble understanding anyone on this thread who disagrees with your point of view.

No, loony feminism is pretending that we live in a rarified cultural vacuum where people can somehow do and wear whatever they want without judgement or even mildly-negative reactions from others. And then getting very pissy and accusatory when perfectly reasonable people point out that no, actually, we don't live in such a vacuum and we never will.

Marmalade if you don't think shorts can curtain childhood, I dare you to send your 11 year old son to the school disco in these.

We're talking about girls wearing short skirts and you're posting about being naked and wearing ties, hats and pvc shorts Kiwi.

No one here has denied that girls in tight/short clothes get negative reaction, and no one has suggested we live in a cultural vacuum. In fact the whole thread has been about cultural assumptions and negative reactions. Have you read any of it?

My dd is very tall and is frequently thought to be significantly older than she is. This is quite problematic, but there is nothing she or us as parents can do about it. It has very little to do with what she is wearing, and I had a similar, although slightly less extreme issue as a child.

So far, even though she does at times wear hot pants (like 90% of the girls in her school) and has worn adult dresses to parties (both because there are no 'child like' clothes available in her size) she has had no grief, and I hope very much that that remains the case (not the case sadly for a number of her friends). Yes she did have a young man think about chatting her up (until his mum pointed out she was 13 and then he backed off very sharpish). Oh and she has indeed been called a 'slut', as have most of her friends, simply because it's a nasty insult often leveled at girls/women.

Unsurprisingly ds (also tall, and generally choosing to dress like a hipster, so again is sometimes taken to be older) has never had an issue, and he and his friends have never been called sluts.

Anyway, to return to point, my parents never allowed me to wear 'inappropriate' clothes, and yet I was twice sexually assaulted at an age younger than my dd, once in a sundress most certainly too young looking for me, and the other time in school uniform. Oh and I was flashed at and catcalled regularly too, all in upper junior school (as were my non-tall sisters).

Some men/boys are just shits who enjoy upsetting and abusing girls/women. What women wear will never address that.

Well kiwi it seems we are talking at cross purposes, as I didn't think we were talking about girls in D&M/bondage latex and leather clothes specifically designed for sexual titillation.

I thought we were just talking about teenage fashion clothes. The likes of which can be bought in Primani/next/John Lewis etc depending on your preference

kiwi I'm totally aware, through lived experience, that people react to the way women look. But it doesn't matter what you wear. There will be comments and unwanted sexual interest, whatever a girl wears. There is absolutely no correlation between unwanted sexual attention and length of skirt

That's what you consider when looking at 10-14 year old girls?

Read again and see 'woman' not 'girl'. A few different things are being discussed in the thread, it always happens and the monolithic thread structures of mumsnet suck at separating them.