genderqueer

[BrookeDavies]

I read a Jack Monroe article today where she talked of how as a child she wanted to do 'boy' things / wear 'boy' clothes and ergo be a boy. But now, she no longer wants to be a boy/man as she's comfortable with who she is as an individual.

I feel so heartened by her story and people like Tyler Ford and even Miley Cirus. It feels so much more in line with my own view that gender is a social construct.

Personally, I hope that this encourages kids who feel a bit different to learn to accept, embrace and be who they are without the need for difficult and intrusive surgery and drugs.

"does he mean that homosexuality is a social construct?"

I must say that I hadn't expected this level of distortion.

"My problem with this statement is that it doesn't explain the many heterosexual men who feel they are transgender, who once they transition identify as lesbian"

I'm not aware of any cases of this but I haven't specifically searched for them. I'm sure a thorough interview would discern their sexuality. I don't believe these people are 'genderqueer' in any case.

I'm not aware of any cases of this but I haven't specifically searched for them.

Odd, given that ime, it's most transwomen who then go on to identify as lesbians. Even when they still retain their male sex organs. They then get very angry with lesbians who point out that male sex organs aren't part of the whole lesbian package.

I think it's a shame that sex and gender now seem to be interchangeable terms. I think it's important and necessary to be able to distinguish between the biological and the social / cultural.

70s Bowie was indeed ace, wasn't he? Androgynous, cross dressing and bisexual, yet apparently still completely at ease with his biological sex too.

He was also rather pretty!

MrsF, it's also bloody annoying from a factual PoV.

I actually wondered if it's happened in wider society because of a slight lingering prudishness around the word "sex"? I had several weird conversations with sonography re and midwives in both my pregnancies where I would talk about the "sex" of my babies and they would talk about the "gender". I found that pretty strange!

I'd ask them why they were imposing outdated social constructs on foetuses, but then I'm funny like that

I feel so heartened by her story and people like Tyler Ford and even Miley Cirus. It feels so much more in line with my own view that gender is a social construct.

I don't understand this at all. Jack Monroe (notwithstanding the masculine name ) is a lesbian (born)woman who dresses a bit butch looking but is happy being a woman. Tyler Ford is born woman who has transitioned to be a transman.

I may have misunderstood the OP but the 2 cases are completely the opposite. Jack Monroe rejected feminine stereotyping but is still happily a woman whereas Tyler Ford not only rejected feminine stereotyping but has declared they (his choice of pronoun) is a man.

What Miley Cirus has to do with anything I don't know.

Ahhhh I thought Tyler Ford was a biological male who had no intention of transitioning. I was wrong. Depressing. Although it is interesting that as a transitioned male they are rejecting the visual clues that make them 'male'

Miley said in many articles that she doesn't particularly identity as female, but that doesn't make her want to be male.

(I don't at all mean clothes make you male/female - they are just used as though they do)

Ok more background internetting and actually I think Tyler's story also supports what many feminists are saying. Both Tyler and Jack had the same feelings as a kid. One transitioned and one didn't, but they've both realised that not being one 'gender' doesn't make you the other. So they've essentially ended up at the same place.

Which is all the more reason for not having intrusive and potentially irreversible surgery.

Tyler Ford took and presumably still takes hormones. I assume you are referring to that date with Miley where Ford is wearing a dress and Doc Martins. From the photo it looks as if Ford may have had a mastectomy.

Most other photos of Ford are of him in masculine clothes. His born name is Brittany and his wiki entry is full of quotes from him about always knowing he is a boy.

The more recent ones (not just the pic with mc) suggest that this is not a permanent feeling. The recent quote from Tyler was i was lead to believe there were only two boxes (ie boy/girls) now I know I can just be me. (Paraphrase not quote btw)

So very interesting that they were so sure and as they've grown their opinion has changed/developed. Which is not exactly uncommon for any teen.

Lass, dead naming a trans person is very poor form. On a par with misgendering. Being gender crit doesn't automatically mean you get to be rude or nasty to trans people.

Why not take your point up with Glee Project that is where I got the information.

thegleeproject.wikia.com/wiki/Tyler_Ford

I mentioned the background as the OP seems to have got her information completely wrong in the way she is comparing Tyler Ford with Jack Monroe.

Baking this is the link direct from the Glee Project . I'm sort of assuming Ford has seen and had input in to both of those.

www.wetpaint.com/2012-06-08-the-glee-projects-tyler-ford-on-coming-out-being-transgender/

I was going to ignore this thread, but I can't resist a man with a degree. Having a few of them myself, like other posters on this thread.

A couple of my mates are genderqueer. One of them is also gay. I'm not sure her/his homosexuality is particularly 'cured' by it, somehow.

I know it's not a very well defined term, and not one that does a lot for my politics TBH, but MrBinary, the point of it is that you don't identify entirely with one gender or the other, so it's hardly going to lessen the number of gay relationships people have, is it?

Lass, I am only going by what trans folks tell me. No need to be an utter dickhead about it, was there?

Baking your post to me was rude and assumed I had mentioned the history with bad intent. The information is available on the Glee Project site so I am assuming Ford is not bothered about his/their former name (the site mixes pronouns) being known. The OP's post is predicated on the assumption Ford is a biologically born boy who refused to transition whereas he is a biologically born girl who did.

I assume, Cote, that it is refusing to play ball with requests to airbrush out the past, Stalinist fashion.

As in, saying Caitlyn Jenner used to be the Bruce Jenner who made the Olympics before the namechange? Is the assumption that Bruce is now dead?

I wrote a post and it's gone! I will try and recreate it but sorry if I end up posting twice.

As I understand it, dead naming is referring to a trans person as the name they went by prior to transitioning. I've read that it is a hurtful reminder of a time they were forced to live as something they were not; I've also read some blog posts where trans people say they do not wish to erase their past, so are happy to talk about their old life and name. I think the more vocal trans activists take the 'dead naming is bad' view.

With regards to gender queer and gender fluid, I do not really find these concepts progressive. They still adhere to the idea that there are two fixed, distinct genders and we have to fit one, the other or some combination of the two.

I don't really know anything about Jack Monroe or the other names mentioned.

I think maybe it's a bit like politician's private lives and the public interest defence. If someone is just quietly going about their life, getting on with things and other people then it would be (to my mind) an utterly unjustifiable intrusion for an acquaintance or colleague to take every opportunity to keep banging on about "That Jane/John Smith: used to be a man/woman, you know..."

On the other hand there may be situations where there's a legitimate public interest question - e.g., suppose, out of nowhere a woman suddenly appears on the athletics scene and runs the Olympic women's marathon qualifying time, with (mysteriously) no past records of them having competed in high profile races... then a journalist "outs" them as having previously run as a man, there may be a public interest defence in that it is reasonable to ask about whether hormone levels alone are sufficient evidence of a level playing field after an athlete has decided to live as a different gender (NB I tend to think of gender as a social construct about sex roles imposed by society, not as an internal feeling, but for the sake of argument, I'm using it in the latter sense here).