Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

DP wants to go on new DC's BC

525 replies

Jackieharris · 18/05/2015 14:03

He has just raised this out of the blue.

He isn't on our eldest DC's bc. That's never caused a problem. Now he's saying he wants that changed too.

I know this is 'normal practice' (hence posting on fwr not aibu/chat/parenting/relationships) but it's made me really anxious.

It came so out of the blue, I didn't have much of a response prepared. I said it hadn't caused any problems so why change. I said I didn't want to give up my exclusive rights. He said why and I gave the hypothetical scenario of him running off with a younger woman then being able to restrict where I live etc after a split.

He knew about my stance on this before we had dc1. He knows I had a very bad relationship experience before him (life threatening violence, stalking and breaking into new house after break up type stuff) so I just won't ever feel 100% safe with any man ever and need to have the security that I could escape if that happened again. From my PoV if he was on bc he could potentially use this power to continue to abuse me even if I left. (So many threads like that on relationships board and I know some irl examples too)

As long as he was never violent I'd always let him have fair access to dcs so I said to him why does he want it unless he doesn't trust me?

I'm now going to be constantly worried he'll bring it up again. Maybe he won't. I'll not mention it if he doesn't.

OP posts:
OutsSelf · 19/05/2015 00:05

He is allowed to change his mind. They should talk it over.

I think all I'm asking for is some kindness and consideration of the wider picture.

scallopsrgreat · 19/05/2015 00:07

The OP didn't expect unanimous support.

The majority of posters on here disagree with me, Outs, Yonic and uglyswan.

Tell me what I've said that's horrible Lass?

scallopsrgreat · 19/05/2015 00:10

And to man-hating.

Recognising male privilege and that men as a class oppress women as a class is not man-hating.

Neither is wanting a little bit of kindness to the OP who is struggling with this.

Reginafalangie · 19/05/2015 00:10

OP doesn't want to talk it over. OP said at the very beginning I'm now going to be constantly worried he'll bring it up again. Maybe he won't. I'll not mention it if he doesn't.

The OP came on this board instead of relationships in search of validation as she labelled this as a feminist issue. It isn't it is a relationship/abuse/past issues/lack of communication issue.

OutsSelf · 19/05/2015 00:11

I don't think anyone here is advocating her current partner suck up or pay for the violence of the ex. Just that he might, and we might, be cognisant of why this issue has such symbolic value to the OP. No one would want to deny this guy actual parental rights

scallopsrgreat · 19/05/2015 00:13

Agreed Outs.

LassUnparalleled · 19/05/2015 00:13

Scallops you have not looked at it from the point of the OP and her partner. You have turned it into yet another opportunity to talk about male oppression. So preaching about empathy is a little ironic really. Even the OP has not said that was the case.

I've re-read the opening post-
I said I didn't want to give up my exclusive rights . What a horrible way to think about your children and their father.

Reginafalangie · 19/05/2015 00:14

The OP does want to deny him that.

He appears he is very aware of why it is symbolic given that he didn't push the issue the first time round. The fact that he has now changed his mind does not mean he has no thought or understanding for the OP.

And most posters did give thought to what the OP has been through but that doesn't mean everyone must than agree with her.

Reginafalangie · 19/05/2015 00:16

Crikey my typing has gone to pot....tired fingers.

LassUnparalleled · 19/05/2015 00:18

And Regina is right- this thread was started here for a reason rather than relationships.

I've seen several AIBU threads on the subject of whether or not the dead beat man who isn't on the scene should be omitted from the birth certificate. Usually the consensus , with which I agree, is a woman is entitled to register a birth on her own. This is a different situation.

OutsSelf · 19/05/2015 00:19

I think the OP wanted to talk it over with people whose general outlook she feels she trusts - feminists. This is not not wanting to talk it over.

I wonder how much advice she'll take from someone who starts with YABU and proceeds with a list of ways she is failing and an emphasis on her partner's POV, vs someone who starts with, I see why you feel that way, proceeds with a gentle discussion of whether her current strategy is working as she wants and finishes with positive potential ways to interpret her partner's change of heart?

Reginafalangie · 19/05/2015 00:20

I generally stay off this board too Lass Grin

scallopsrgreat · 19/05/2015 00:23

Well I don't know if I've looked at it from the point of view of the OP. I don't think I claimed to. I was offering her what I thought was a sympathetic feminist view (not an exclusive feminists view before people start telling me I am dictating feminism to them?. Maybe male oppression doesn't play a part in the OP's thoughts. But talking about the ways in which oppression affect us shouldn't be an unusual occurrence on a feminist board, surely. And as she was posting on here I would imagine the OP would be expecting that.

OutsSelf · 19/05/2015 00:23

Male power is the backdrop of any discussion of male violence, so I think it's relevant. I think it is why OP posted here, too, because she thought feminists might think about that context. None if which I, and I think everyone here agrees, means she should dismiss out if hand or try and deny her partner's PR.

Reginafalangie · 19/05/2015 00:23

Isn't that why MN has so many members? So that OP's get a mixture of pov/advice/experience?

Rarely will you get a thread where everyone agrees and the OP given that she is a long time member should no that you take the rough with the smooth. That in amongst the YABU there will be useful and constructive posts. Freedom of speech is just that and posting publically means posters will have their say. You cannot demand that they toe the line or post in exactly the same way.

LassUnparalleled · 19/05/2015 00:23

Well I hope OP takes from it this that her children are not her exclusive property.

Reginafalangie · 19/05/2015 00:26

Male power is the backdrop of any discussion of male violence

Naturally so however to then start using it as a stick to beat her new DP with who is non violent is unfair. Surely it is better that people direct the OP's focus off of her past experience with a violent man and help her see that her DP who is loving and a good father deserves more and deserves to be legally recognised as a parent?

BitchPeas · 19/05/2015 00:28

This situation isn't about male privilege, or oppression or feminism.

The OP CHOSE to have children with this man. 2 children. She has said he is not violent or abusive. She is denying him his right to be legally recognised as their dad due to some unresolved issues on her part. It's selfish, and damaging to her children, it's not even about abuse I don't think as she states in the OP it's incase he runs off with a younger woman Hmm that's insecurity and jealousy. The birth certificate is not hers, it's not her right to withhold information from it. The protection she THINKS it gives her is completely incorrect, so what is the actual point. If it were a man doing this, we would all shout ABUSE LTB.
What kind of message do you think this will give your children about relationships OP? How awful to have to put your father, who raised you, on your birth cert as an adult because of your mothers blinkered incorrect views. Hmm

Oh and OP this is from someone who spent 5 years and had a child with someone who stalked, raped and abused me. He held a knife to my throat and threatend to kill me. So I do understand but you need to take responsibility for your feelings and get help so you don't screw up your children.

PerspicaciaTick · 19/05/2015 00:37

From the PoV of the OPs children, her abusive ex is nothing, a complete irrelevance, he has no power, no influence...except that his past actions mean that they will not have their own DDad's name on their birth certificate, which may lead to battles and distress for them in future.
It seems terrible unfair on them that the ex's toxic existence is having any sort of impact on them and their future at all.

OutsSelf · 19/05/2015 00:44

"This situation isn't about male violence, oppression or feminism"

I think those things are relevant as they clearly are the backdrop against which OP considers this situation.

No one here, no one thinks she should use those things as a "stick to beat her current partner with". People are just contextualising why she's struggling here. Is it really so hard to see that kindness and empathy might enable the OP to engage, whereas decrying her as awful or abusive and anyone who supports her as man hating is likely to make her defensive and intransigent?

Reginafalangie · 19/05/2015 00:53

As I said earlier not all posters were rude or abusive. However you and scallop did not just support her sympathetically you used her OP to make generalisation against all men. You both used her OP to spout about how all men are oppressive.

No other oppressed group is expected live with and love their oppressors.

As an aside birth certificates seem pretty patriarchal to me. A lot of it is rooted in men's ownership of children. If a father's name was on a BC then a child was 'legitimate'.

He is part of the oppressive class, though.

No this guy isn't the abuser but he does sit in the same position of privilege and power

Men being expected to love and live with women doesn't endanger them in the way that women are endangered by this. For example, the two women a week killed by partners/ exes.

The notion of male power privilege. Which OP's current partner has in common with her ex, welcome or otherwise.

It's more like, male violence against women is part of the larger power relations between men and women. To be socialised as a woman is to be brought up against the backdrop of that

^^ Just a few from both your posts but to see them like this looks to me like you two had your own agenda and supporting the OP to see that she needs further professional support and not seeing her DP as the bad guy and that he has rights too was furthest from your minds Hmm

OutsSelf · 19/05/2015 01:02

Right, so I did actually post in good faith and advise OP that her current strategy is probably not providing the security she thinks. I did then suggest he might even be suggesting it for very positive reasons.

The posts you've quoted of mine were in response to specific points, mainly where people were going so what? Male violence isn't relevant here, etc. etc. The points about why women are endangered was part of the discussion about why just flipping the genders here isn't a straightforward comparison, and the points about privelege were to points you made denying it.

You said I was talking out of my arsed, which is way ruder than I've been to you at any point. And people have said it's man hating to empathise with thuthiss woman which I do actually find very insulting. It's been rude and aggressive in just one direction as far as I'm concerned.

That cut and paste is in such bad faith. Every single poster on this thread had supported the OP's partner's PR.

OutsSelf · 19/05/2015 01:04

Male violence isn't a generalisation, neither is male lri ilege. It's a fact and the salient background to this discussion.

Reginafalangie · 19/05/2015 01:12

Nobody said that male violence wasn't relevant but the way you posted it in context to her current OP was irrelevant.

No what is salient is the OP's use of her past abuse to dictate the parental rights of her DP 3 DC's after many years of being together.

It wasn't in bad faith it is how your posts have come across not only to me but others too.

You are correct my comment about you talking out of your arse was rude and I could have put it better so for that I apologise.

Coyoacan · 19/05/2015 01:12

Havn't read the entire thread, but as someone who did not put my dd's father on her birth cert and did give him access to his dd, under different circumstances as we were already apart, I agree with you, OP. You are asking him to trust you, rather than you having to trust him, I don't see the problem.

Swipe left for the next trending thread